Odd things are happening

[Numdydar]

1939 scenario - all was good up until Paris fell
- Did not create Vichy (so that maybe where things started getting strange)
- Captured all of Mainland France yet cannot kill off the troops in NA. Ports blockaded (which are 10 btw. They are 5s at the start of the game and they become 10s in one turn? No way should this happen)
- Allies almost capture Libya as the AK comes in at half strength and it takes at least 3-4 turns to actually get them into Africa as they show up in Italy. Previous games did the event much better where they showed up in Africa full strength. I have never had an issues getting troops to NA as the Axis so I am not sure why this was changed
- The UK sends a FULL strength Armor unit AND a HQ to East Africa!!! Whatttt? talk about overkill. Then the tank gets cut off and destroyed as not much else came with it
- I invade England (poorly I might add). Apparently HQs can supply units across the English channel So while I did not get a port, I tied up a bunch of English units and killed a ton of aircraft as they kept bombing and my planes were better than theirs. But my units lasted almost a year before finally biting the dust
- Got the Turks into the war and captured Suez. Only units in Egypt was a garrison, Eng and an Egyptian corp. The rest of the UK forces were at Bengasi and did not seem to have any interest in heading for Egypt

Now here is where things really get weird
- In Sept 41 (before I capture Suez) a message comes up saying the USSR is preparing for a great war. I look at the Dip screen and the USSR is at 100%. Yet they do not attack anyone nor can I attack them. So I wait a couple of turns and get fed up and declare war with Japan as their as several cites that are empty that I can capture. Imagine my surprise that as soon as I declare war, units magickly instantly appear in the cities that just a few seconds ago were empty. Yes FOW is On but still I should know before I declare war that something is there versus nothing.
- Germany on the other hand can't do squat against the USSR
- Message comes up that lend lease to USSR starts but Germany can't raid the convoys. Lines are Red, etc.
- I also get a message that Vichy wants to give Japan Indochina. Huh? There is no Vichy so why is France giving me anything? Of course I take it but still seems off
- I do not have any troops near Burma but they go to the Allies? As Thailand is neutral why would they want to get involved. They were like the Belgium of the Far East. There should be no way the Allies should get them to join them
- Poised and ready for Yugoslavia to go Allied, but nothing.
- Russia finally declares war on Germany in Oct '41 So 2-4 turns after the Great War message
- Next Allied turn the US enters the war. A bunch of messages pop up saying how happy everyone is that the US is in the war. Wait a minute, Russia went to war against me so that should have decreased the desire for anyone to be happy about that
- Next turn after US is in the war, another moral boost for all the Allies for liberating France. Another WTF moment. Because Algeria is still France, France is liberated lol. Wow.

I stopped playing at this point as things seem to be a little off the rails. I may continue on just to what other oddities occur. As Bulgaria and Rumania are still neutral. As well as Spain and Yugo.

I also wonder what will happen during the winder 41/42 since I am still at the Polish border. So it might be worth my time to see what happens there.

I just wanted to some of the odd things that have go on so far. Hopefully a patch will fix some of these in a few weeks.

[BillRunacre]

Hi Numdydar

Thanks for the feedback, I've noted some of the things you've mentioned and will look into them and make corrections as appropriate. [:)]

Here are answers to some of the others.

- Allies almost capture Libya as the AK comes in at half strength and it takes at least 3-4 turns to actually get them into Africa as they show up in Italy. Previous games did the event much better where they showed up in Africa full strength. I have never had an issues getting troops to NA as the Axis so I am not sure why this was changed.

This is correct, as in the War in Europe game there were occasions where Allied players with lots of experience of the game would block the location(s) where the Afrika Korps deployed, so their opponents sometimes received only a small proportion of the whole force due to the presence of Allied units there. Sometimes these Allied units were virtually sacrificed for this sole purpose, as the benefit was considered to outweigh the cost.

Additionally, others had pointed out that allowing such a force to cross the Mediterranean without risk of being attacked en route by the Allies was unfair. So the new system addresses these concerns.

- I invade England (poorly I might add). Apparently HQs can supply units across the English channel

Do you have a saved turn showing this?

- Germany on the other hand can't do squat against the USSR

Germany will have to declare war on the USSR if it wishes to attack it, either via the Diplomacy or War Maps areas. This is so that you can control which of your Majors go to war with others, e.g. you may wish to attack the USSR with all three Axis Majors, or just Germany and Italy as historically.

The USSR under the AI's control is likely to delay its declaration of war slightly as it has more to gain from building up forces than rushing into action straight away.

- Poised and ready for Yugoslavia to go Allied, but nothing.

Yugoslavia was about to join the Axis and that's what triggered the pro-Allied coup, but in the game the former can only happen if France has already surrendered, i.e. the Axis are in a clearly good position in Europe.

[rodney727]

Was about to pull the trigger on this game, thank goodness for this review. Thank you Numdydar, sounds like they have several updates to the game to make it playable, I will keep watching.

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

1939 scenario - all was good up until Paris fell
- Did not create Vichy (so that maybe where things started getting strange)
- Captured all of Mainland France yet cannot kill off the troops in NA. Ports blockaded (which are 10 btw. They are 5s at the start of the game and they become 10s in one turn? No way should this happen)
- Allies almost capture Libya as the AK comes in at half strength and it takes at least 3-4 turns to actually get them into Africa as they show up in Italy. Previous games did the event much better where they showed up in Africa full strength. I have never had an issues getting troops to NA as the Axis so I am not sure why this was changed
- The UK sends a FULL strength Armor unit AND a HQ to East Africa!!! Whatttt? talk about overkill. Then the tank gets cut off and destroyed as not much else came with it
- I invade England (poorly I might add). Apparently HQs can supply units across the English channel So while I did not get a port, I tied up a bunch of English units and killed a ton of aircraft as they kept bombing and my planes were better than theirs. But my units lasted almost a year before finally biting the dust
- Got the Turks into the war and captured Suez. Only units in Egypt was a garrison, Eng and an Egyptian corp. The rest of the UK forces were at Bengasi and did not seem to have any interest in heading for Egypt

Now here is where things really get weird
- In Sept 41 (before I capture Suez) a message comes up saying the USSR is preparing for a great war. I look at the Dip screen and the USSR is at 100%. Yet they do not attack anyone nor can I attack them. So I wait a couple of turns and get fed up and declare war with Japan as their as several cites that are empty that I can capture. Imagine my surprise that as soon as I declare war, units magickly instantly appear in the cities that just a few seconds ago were empty. Yes FOW is On but still I should know before I declare war that something is there versus nothing.
- Germany on the other hand can't do squat against the USSR
- Message comes up that lend lease to USSR starts but Germany can't raid the convoys. Lines are Red, etc.
- I also get a message that Vichy wants to give Japan Indochina. Huh? There is no Vichy so why is France giving me anything? Of course I take it but still seems off
- I do not have any troops near Burma but they go to the Allies? As Thailand is neutral why would they want to get involved. They were like the Belgium of the Far East. There should be no way the Allies should get them to join them
- Poised and ready for Yugoslavia to go Allied, but nothing.
- Russia finally declares war on Germany in Oct '41 So 2-4 turns after the Great War message
- Next Allied turn the US enters the war. A bunch of messages pop up saying how happy everyone is that the US is in the war. Wait a minute, Russia went to war against me so that should have decreased the desire for anyone to be happy about that
- Next turn after US is in the war, another moral boost for all the Allies for liberating France. Another WTF moment. Because Algeria is still France, France is liberated lol. Wow.

I stopped playing at this point as things seem to be a little off the rails. I may continue on just to what other oddities occur. As Bulgaria and Rumania are still neutral. As well as Spain and Yugo.

I also wonder what will happen during the winder 41/42 since I am still at the Polish border. So it might be worth my time to see what happens there.

I just wanted to some of the odd things that have go on so far. Hopefully a patch will fix some of these in a few weeks.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Hi Numdydar

Thanks for the feedback, I've noted some of the things you've mentioned and will look into them and make corrections as appropriate. [:)]

Here are answers to some of the others.

- Allies almost capture Libya as the AK comes in at half strength and it takes at least 3-4 turns to actually get them into Africa as they show up in Italy. Previous games did the event much better where they showed up in Africa full strength. I have never had an issues getting troops to NA as the Axis so I am not sure why this was changed.

This is correct, as in the War in Europe game there were occasions where Allied players with lots of experience of the game would block the location(s) where the Afrika Korps deployed, so their opponents sometimes received only a small proportion of the whole force due to the presence of Allied units there. Sometimes these Allied units were virtually sacrificed for this sole purpose, as the benefit was considered to outweigh the cost.

Additionally, others had pointed out that allowing such a force to cross the Mediterranean without risk of being attacked en route by the Allies was unfair. So the new system addresses these concerns.

- I invade England (poorly I might add). Apparently HQs can supply units across the English channel

Do you have a saved turn showing this?

- Germany on the other hand can't do squat against the USSR

Germany will have to declare war on the USSR if it wishes to attack it, either via the Diplomacy or War Maps areas. This is so that you can control which of your Majors go to war with others, e.g. you may wish to attack the USSR with all three Axis Majors, or just Germany and Italy as historically.

The USSR under the AI's control is likely to delay its declaration of war slightly as it has more to gain from building up forces than rushing into action straight away.

- Poised and ready for Yugoslavia to go Allied, but nothing.

Yugoslavia was about to join the Axis and that's what triggered the pro-Allied coup, but in the game the former can only happen if France has already surrendered, i.e. the Axis are in a clearly good position in Europe.

As always thanks so much for the great feedback and quick response. I know you will address a lot of these issues going forward as you have done in all your previous games.

The issue with Russia was that the message came up that said Russia was preparing for a Great Patriotic war. But was not at war with anyone. Then messages came up saying lend leases started by the US and UK but the US was not at war either. IIRC this was like in Sept '41.

With no one at war with Russia why does this happen? If Russia is the aggressor, then the Russian people should not get a patriotic boost.

So in Oct '41 I declare war on Russia with Japan (which then has 'invisible' units appear in empty towns as I noted in the OP.

So in Nov '41 Russia declares war on Germany which also does not make sense. There is no way anyone would start a war in bad weather like that. The earliest Russia would go to war should be sometime in the Spring of '42 when good weather hits. So Russia should be prevented from going to war from Oct-April every year as the AI.

If the German garrison requirements are not met then that should allow Russia to stop sending the 25 MMP to Germany. Or have a combination effect with reaching a certain percentage of towards the Allies.


I also think that the boost of Germany units being in England is way too high. It should be based on number of units/cities captured/etc. I had one para and one corp in the UK with no port. So that should have had zero impact on the US and USSR. Now if I captured London, THEN that should have an impact, but not just setting foot in England.

Interesting about blocking the AK spawn points lol. I never once thought to do that Then I would just spawn them next to Tripoli. Again I have never had any issue getting troops across the Med against the AI or PBEM. In RL the Axis never did either at this point. The central Med was a death trap for Allied ships due to Sicily and the short distance from Italian ports. Just take the Italian sub and park it between Italy and NA and you should be good. Plus I do not see how the Axis AI s going to do well in getting these troops across.

Yugo not firing kind of makes sense but not sure. As it is hard to determine what they would have done given the different situations in an alternate world.

I do not have a saved game for the HQ supply across the channel. But its easy to recreate. Just put a HQ in Calais and have a unit across in England. The unit is attached to the HQ which gives it supplies. Not I could not reinforce the units in England, but it took a year for several corps and the Army in London to kill off my Para and Corp

I hope the further detail in this post helps. Still a great game, but I did not create Vichy on purpose just to see what the game would do. I'm sure the 'normal' path of WWII will work much better than what I did in this game.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

1) 1939 scenario
- Did not create Vichy

2) I have never had an issues getting troops to NA as the Axis so I am not sure why this was changed

3) The UK sends a FULL strength Armor unit AND a HQ to East Africa!!! Whatttt? talk about overkill.

4) I also get a message that Vichy wants to give Japan Indochina. Huh? There is no Vichy so why is France giving me anything? Of course I take it but still seems off

5) As Bulgaria and Rumania are still neutral.

6) I also wonder what will happen during the winder 41/42 since I am still at the Polish border.

1. Same here

2. I actually lost my armoured car, as well as the Italian CL when trying to get the AK across to Africa since the RN and French fleet was more or less blocking the area around Malta.

3. In my game they sent 2HQs (1 from S.Africa and 1 from Sudan), and 4 corps formation (2 S.African, 2 Sudanese), so guess this changes from game to game.

4. Got the same message, also no Vichy. Guessing this is a scripted message, and that they should make another script for when Vichy has not been created to sort this.

5. I got them to join as soon as I pushed a few hexes into USSR, they went from 80% Axis to in the war in one turn.

6. I got the USSR Winter damage on the few units that were across the border, so got off the first winter rule really cheap. On the flip side, I am facing ALOT of USSR armies, tanks and mechanized units, so it will be a slugfest to get anywhere it seems.


Terje

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

As always thanks so much for the great feedback and quick response. I know you will address a lot of these issues going forward as you have done in all your previous games.

Thanks, and we will do our best, as you know. [:)]

The issue with Russia was that the message came up that said Russia was preparing for a Great Patriotic war. But was not at war with anyone. Then messages came up saying lend leases started by the US and UK but the US was not at war either. IIRC this was like in Sept '41.

With no one at war with Russia why does this happen? If Russia is the aggressor, then the Russian people should not get a patriotic boost.

I will see if I can work on a solution for this for those occasions where the USSR mobilizes but Germany doesn't invade. It's not as simple behind the scenes as one might like, but I will give it some thought and see what can be done.

So in Oct '41 I declare war on Russia with Japan (which then has 'invisible' units appear in empty towns as I noted in the OP.

Offhand I think these units will represent Soviet forces mobilizing for war.

[Numdydar]

We are talking the Far East. Not much there to mobilize anything in 2 weeks. Much less several corps and garrisons in that time frame.

I would certainly know if there were that many troops in the cities close to my borders. To have them just magickly appear out of thin air really ruins the FOW concept. Because even if you get Spying tech up, you still will never see these troops since they are not there.

So either have the troops there from the start (or have the AI move them later) or leave the cities vacant when war is declared.

[Hubert Cater]

I do not have a saved game for the HQ supply across the channel. But its easy to recreate. Just put a HQ in Calais and have a unit across in England. The unit is attached to the HQ which gives it supplies. Not I could not reinforce the units in England, but it took a year for several corps and the Army in London to kill off my Para and Corp

This wouldn't give the units in England supply, i.e. not from the HQ, it just means that it is attached and would only receive the leadership combat bonuses from being attached.

Now the fact it is attached in this case is likely a bug, but I'll have to re-create this to ensure that this was indeed happening.

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

We are talking the Far East. Not much there to mobilize anything in 2 weeks. Much less several corps and garrisons in that time frame.

I would certainly know if there were that many troops in the cities close to my borders. To have them just magickly appear out of thin air really ruins the FOW concept. Because even if you get Spying tech up, you still will never see these troops since they are not there.

So either have the troops there from the start (or have the AI move them later) or leave the cities vacant when war is declared.

I'll have to take a look as some of these might represent the units that would historically be there and if available from the start a human player with hindsight would likely move them away from the border to avoid destruction. This is also one of the reasons we deploy the historical Soviet forces along the Eastern Front with Germany only upon a declaration of war as that gives the German player the chance to actually destroy those units as they were destroyed in the initial stages of Barbarossa.

But as Bill mentioned we'll take a closer look and see which units are which that appear when Japan declares war on the Soviets in the Far East.

[Numdydar]

Vladivostok should definitely have something in it. At least a garrison.

To prevent players from moving them, you could require a garrison like you do for Japan and if they are moved away 'bad things' happen [:)]

Or you could have then 'frozen' in place and can't be moved until certain conditions are met.

I totally get the desire to limit hindsight, but I (and maybe others too) detest looking at a border, seeing opportunities, and then after declaring war, 'bam' a bunch of units shows up from nowhere. Regardless of what country it is. in mho that should never happen because it totally ruins the impact of spying tech.

The smaller countries, Holland, etc. units appearing is not that big of a deal (but the units still should be on the map instead of appearing). But for the majors it is.

Germany had excellent intel on the Russian border units and beyond before they attacked. Where is that intel in this game? All because players move units around a historically? So what let them. Again many games prevent this by forcing X units to be on the borders. In this game if Russia does not garrison the border, then Germany gets increased MMP from them. I.E. Stalin 'paying off' Germany not to attack a weaken border.

Just some ideas to make this work better than it does now.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

I do not have a saved game for the HQ supply across the channel. But its easy to recreate. Just put a HQ in Calais and have a unit across in England. The unit is attached to the HQ which gives it supplies. Not I could not reinforce the units in England, but it took a year for several corps and the Army in London to kill off my Para and Corp

This wouldn't give the units in England supply, i.e. not from the HQ, it just means that it is attached and would only receive the leadership combat bonuses from being attached.

Now the fact it is attached in this case is likely a bug, but I'll have to re-create this to ensure that this was indeed happening.

Thanks for taking a look at this. If the HQ is not providing supply, then why did it take so long to kill off my units? They should have been destroyed in a couple of turns at most.

I did own the town Maidstone. So it looks like this is the same issue I had with War In Europe where owning a town made units last forever. We had many dissuasions about that if iirc [:)]

Again I want to be clear this is a great game. I just want it to be better [:)]

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

We are talking the Far East. Not much there to mobilize anything in 2 weeks. Much less several corps and garrisons in that time frame.

I would certainly know if there were that many troops in the cities close to my borders. To have them just magickly appear out of thin air really ruins the FOW concept. Because even if you get Spying tech up, you still will never see these troops since they are not there.

So either have the troops there from the start (or have the AI move them later) or leave the cities vacant when war is declared.

I looked into this further and wanted to clarify as I believe this is all a misunderstanding in how FoW works with non belligerents.

Essentially since Japan is not at war with the USSR, spotting in this case is limited to just the border hexes and would explain why you could not let's say see the unit at Vladivostock and how it felt like it magically appeared which of course, did not happen, it was always there.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks for taking a look at this. If the HQ is not providing supply, then why did it take so long to kill off my units? They should have been destroyed in a couple of turns at most.

I did own the town Maidstone. So it looks like this is the same issue I had with War In Europe where owning a town made units last forever. We had many dissuasions about that if iirc [:)]

Again I want to be clear this is a great game. I just want it to be better [:)]

I'd have to see the turn but if the units were drawing some supply from a captured resource then that would have certainly helped.

But the report that the AI was eventually able to beat back the invasion I'll take as an overall positive either way from an AI development perspective [:)]

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

We are talking the Far East. Not much there to mobilize anything in 2 weeks. Much less several corps and garrisons in that time frame.

I would certainly know if there were that many troops in the cities close to my borders. To have them just magickly appear out of thin air really ruins the FOW concept. Because even if you get Spying tech up, you still will never see these troops since they are not there.

So either have the troops there from the start (or have the AI move them later) or leave the cities vacant when war is declared.

I looked into this further and wanted to clarify as I believe this is all a misunderstanding in how FoW works with non belligerents.

Essentially since Japan is not at war with the USSR, spotting in this case is limited to just the border hexes and would explain why you could not let's say see the unit at Vladivostock and how it felt like it magically appeared which of course, did not happen, it was always there.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

There is a city on the Japanese border with Russia that starts with a K. At the start of the game it is empty. After war is declared a unit instantly appears there. As for the other locations near the border, I should know that units are there as japan was not totally ignorant of the border troops. So they should know these locations are occupied or not without having to move a unit or ship next to the location.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Thanks for taking a look at this. If the HQ is not providing supply, then why did it take so long to kill off my units? They should have been destroyed in a couple of turns at most.

I did own the town Maidstone. So it looks like this is the same issue I had with War In Europe where owning a town made units last forever. We had many dissuasions about that if iirc [:)]

Again I want to be clear this is a great game. I just want it to be better [:)]

I'd have to see the turn but if the units were drawing some supply from a captured resource then that would have certainly helped.

But the report that the AI was eventually able to beat back the invasion I'll take as an overall positive either way from an AI development perspective [:)]

I agree that defeating the invasion was a good move by the AI. But my issue is that took several corps and an army to kill off what should have been an out of supply Para and Corp a year in game terms. They should have been dead in 2-3 turns max. If not one.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

We are talking the Far East. Not much there to mobilize anything in 2 weeks. Much less several corps and garrisons in that time frame.

I would certainly know if there were that many troops in the cities close to my borders. To have them just magickly appear out of thin air really ruins the FOW concept. Because even if you get Spying tech up, you still will never see these troops since they are not there.

So either have the troops there from the start (or have the AI move them later) or leave the cities vacant when war is declared.

I looked into this further and wanted to clarify as I believe this is all a misunderstanding in how FoW works with non belligerents.

Essentially since Japan is not at war with the USSR, spotting in this case is limited to just the border hexes and would explain why you could not let's say see the unit at Vladivostock and how it felt like it magically appeared which of course, did not happen, it was always there.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

There is a city on the Japanese border with Russia that starts with a K. At the start of the game it is empty. After war is declared a unit instantly appears there. As for the other locations near the border, I should know that units are there as japan was not totally ignorant of the border troops. So they should know these locations are occupied or not without having to move a unit or ship next to the location.

Hi Numdydar

I've just checked the scripts and also run a test on this, and if the town in question is Khabarovsk, there is no script to automatically deploy a Soviet unit there.

So it looks as though either the unit was there but previously unseen, or the AI has operated/deployed/moved it there in its first turn after war begins.

In terms of changing the rules to allow units belonging to a Major power to be spotted further away than the actual border hexes, i.e. deeper inside their territory, I think this would require some degree of thought as this rule would (unless extra layers were added to it) apply in all instances.

For instance, it would need to be appropriate both here and elsewhere, such as along the French-Italian border early in the war, and the Egyptian-Libyan border too. Not forgetting the border between Germany and the USSR, as both sides could benefit from increased spotting ranges into the interior of their opponent's territory.

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre
...
In terms of changing the rules to allow units belonging to a Major power to be spotted further away than the actual border hexes, i.e. deeper inside their territory, I think this would require some degree of thought as this rule would (unless extra layers were added to it) apply in all instances.
...

The Germans seriously underestimated the depth of Soviet defenses at the start of Barbarossa. They thought that after their initial breakthroughs there would be almost no Soviet forces to oppose their run to Moscow. Just my opinion but allowing spotting deep into enemy territory does not feel historical, at least not on the Eastern Front.

[Numdydar]

But I am not talking about 4-5 hexes into someone's country. Just 1-2 hexes

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater



I looked into this further and wanted to clarify as I believe this is all a misunderstanding in how FoW works with non belligerents.

Essentially since Japan is not at war with the USSR, spotting in this case is limited to just the border hexes and would explain why you could not let's say see the unit at Vladivostock and how it felt like it magically appeared which of course, did not happen, it was always there.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

There is a city on the Japanese border with Russia that starts with a K. At the start of the game it is empty. After war is declared a unit instantly appears there. As for the other locations near the border, I should know that units are there as japan was not totally ignorant of the border troops. So they should know these locations are occupied or not without having to move a unit or ship next to the location.

Hi Numdydar

I've just checked the scripts and also run a test on this, and if the town in question is Khabarovsk, there is no script to automatically deploy a Soviet unit there.

So it looks as though either the unit was there but previously unseen, or the AI has operated/deployed/moved it there in its first turn after war begins.

In terms of changing the rules to allow units belonging to a Major power to be spotted further away than the actual border hexes, i.e. deeper inside their territory, I think this would require some degree of thought as this rule would (unless extra layers were added to it) apply in all instances.

For instance, it would need to be appropriate both here and elsewhere, such as along the French-Italian border early in the war, and the Egyptian-Libyan border too. Not forgetting the border between Germany and the USSR, as both sides could benefit from increased spotting ranges into the interior of their opponent's territory.

Maybe the Spying tech could be used? Lv 0 = 1 hex, Lv 1 = 2 hexes, etc.?

Or maybe Lv 0 = 1 hex but only see ?, Lv 1 = 1 hex but you see the units now, Lv 2 = 2 hexes but see ? in the 2nd hex, Lv = 3 see all units 2 hexes away.

Just some thoughts as either of these would really be useful and make the Spy tech more desirable

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

But I am not talking about 4-5 hexes into someone's country. Just 1-2 hexes

I understand. Currently it's 1 hex, so your suggestion is really whether increasing it to 2 work in all senses of the word.