Solid Axis strategy vs AI

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zahirkus
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Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

How to KRUSH the computer as an Axis Player?

Okay, I've played this game way more than I should have been over the last seven years - both the original WoW and WoW:AWD.

Invariably, I play as the Axis powers. Over time, I've gotten a strategy which works most of the time - say about 90%.

Basically, the key is to defeat USSR as soon as possible, compressing them east-west with both Japanese and German forces. Japan then manages a holding strategy with powerful carrier forces in the pacific, while Germany builds fighters.

Subsequently, you use german u-boats + heavy bombers to confound allied navy in the atlantic, and Japanese Carriers to frustrate them in the pacific.

Strategy as follows:

Germany:

Build order is to have 18 panzers ready for barbarossa, plus an artillery.
Research order to for tanks, infantry, fighter speed. Later, u-boat research can be added.

Shift transports and navy into the baltic. Use a minimum of forces to knock out eastern poland. Make sure you shift enough artillery to west germany on the same round, also move your panzers back to east germany after attacking poland to ensure they can join in the the attack on east france next turn.

Attack east france, create vichy. Ignore netherlands.

Shift some forces to austra for attack on Yugo a bit later.

Shift entire italian fleet to engage Wallied fleet, if lucky you will be able tot drive them out from east med. Transport infantry, artillery, fighter and bomber to africa. Must take out cairo ASAP. Once taken, garrison w/infantry, artillery, and 1 militia. Subsequently send probing attacks to eventually seize iraq.

With Cairo down, shift forces back. If lucky yugoslavia coup occurs quickly, so attack and occupy. Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary if lucky are now axis.

By fall 41 have 8 panzers in east prussia, 10 in romania, a paratroop + a heavy bomber in east prussia. Poland is occupied by militia. Infantry and artillery are distributed evenly between Army groups north and south. So are bombers. Supply is also concentrated in these two zones.

Attack USSR. Open with infantry+artillery assaults on kiev, baltic states.
Don't involve more forces than necessary in these initial attacks, so long as aim is satisfied to annihilate Soviet forces instead of making them retreat in both these initial assaults..move unallocated infantry and artillery inland using rail afterwards. Follow up with double-move panzer thrust to leningrad from east prussia, double move minor panzer thrust to the province north of kiev from romania, paradrop to province just south of baltic, and double-move with remaining southern panzers to kharkov. The first attack should be baltic states, then the paradrop into velikiye luki ... this is necessary to funnel withdrawal of southern USSR forces away from the immediate moscow front

Use fighters to attack VVS air power as it retreats, and bombers to knock out choice rail lines/factories which you have not taken. You must make it expensive for USSR to withdraw forces.

Use supply to fully repair all rail lines. Move up infantry and . artillery not used in the initial wave.

If lucky Finland is now axis. Have Finn armies cut off murmansk. Advance east, send northern panzers on wide flanking movement to threaten Gorki/Kazan, southern panzers to stalingrad. When russian fleet later enters black sea, bomb them, and move out your transport (if you want to risk it, you can move out your transport and shadow them with bombers on the attack turn, but then you forfeit chance to hit rail.

Wide flanking movement will now threaten Urals within three turns of barbarossa. As well moscow is surrounded. Inf+artillery will accumulate near moscow. Attack them head on with support from panzer detachments, with tech advantage losses will be favorable to you, Moscow will fall after two consecutive assaults at most.

Mop up in the Urals. Divert research and production to fighters, u-boats. Build supply heavily in first turns post-ussr victory to repair resources and factories, and moderately heavily thereafter to support Japan via land-lease.

Japan:

Idea is to simultaneously bomb out China war production, and attack USSR in tandem with Germany.

Empty your islands of militia and artillery, and supply. Take that one chinese province, and then, start building three heavy bombers,
Research infantry, ASW for light fleets, heavy bomber attack and ALL six relevant areas for Carriers air groups - speed, evasion, air attack, ship attack, torpedo attack, sub attack. You'll need this later. But considerably later. Research only one point at a time for carrier air groups.

When france turns vichy, Siam turns pro-axis, make sure you have a transport there to pick up resources.

Start buidling three heavy bombers for china
Build an extra infantry.

Keep two carriers in production queue in addition one already being built , time production of carrier air groups to arrive in 43, so freeze their production when you need/supply research and only invest in their production during turns you can afford it. But you must have them within a turn after US enters war. So IJN should initiate construction, but only selectively allocate resources when necessary.

Bomb chinese factories using all air power, only using Carrier groups when risk is non-existent. If light bombers cannot reach factories, use them to attack vulnerable chinese infantry w/o protection of flak.

Shift a heavy fleet into sea of Japan.

All Infantry, artillery should be concentrated in Manchuria, together with all suplly you can spare. One barbarossa turn, suspend strategic bombing campaign on china and attack first the province west of vladivostok, and then throw everything at Vladivostok. Use air power as well. Don't underestimate the russians here, you must seize both provinces in turn one. Once taken, repair both resources.

Delay on repairing all your damaged infantry, instead focus on research and supply, while creeping westward, and also northward with your army across russia. Be ginger, take one province at a time, and don't ignore the "northern provinces" either which don't have rail lines.

After a couply of turns your should be putting the squeeze on USSR with German allies. Needless to say, China should at this point be at effectively at zero production.

When russia is down, germany diverts supply production to support japan (and later on, vice versa as well) But the flow most of the time will be Germany --> Japan, at about 10-15 supplies a turn so that Japanese allies can focus on their carrier research to handicap Allied navy.

In prep for Allied war, withdraw transports from pacific except where necessary (that is along coast of asia). Move out carrier fleet just one zone away from Japan, and wait.

Keep critical transports well protected by destroyers. Keep an additional destroyer in build queue.

When war starts, use own subs for recon. Your target is USN carriers, and USN heavy fleets. When they creep forward, you move your carriers strike group forward, launch an attack and withdraw. Hit them hard with a concentrated Kido Butai carrier air force. Your tech advantage will give you only nominal losses.

When enemy subs appear, hit them offensively with carriers strikes. They will still cause trouble for you, but after a couple of turns they will be under control. A couple of transports is no big deal for IJN at this point.

Have other Carriers Air groups in production queue, you'll need them land -based to harass allied shipping and fleets.

Keep carriers on guard in pacific.

Once russia is effectively out, shift forces to Indochina, occupy Malaya, Luzon to taste. Garrison heavily. Creep to burma if feeling bold, use bombers to harass allied transports around india/Indonesia.

End up with six carrier fleets, one in group of four in the general sea zone south-east of japan, one in a group of two in the zone east of japan. These can support each other offensively, and can also be supported by rebased land fighters on island for protection in case Allied navy is aggressive. Allied navy will be very hard pressed to handle this force. Meanwhile, axis subs can roam the pacific via cairo (if italy does well in the med, and produces a sub every now and then)


---

At some point towards middle-end of the strategy , you should have three new factories started in production in East Germany, and 3 new factories being built in Kyushu (as Japan)...to take advantage of all the resources you should get. Only do this though as you closely approach approach your production limit.

Some other points:

Once VVS/Soviet air force is knocked out early in barbarossa, move fighters to W. Germany for guard duty.

Italian factories should continuously build Heavy fleets and Light fleets all through, concentrate forces in the central med, and this fleet must always be covered by a fighter unit while in the central med to stop allied carrier attacks.

Ignore the Soviet forces in which get surrounded in east poland, they shouldn't be in supply, if they are, keep nominal militia in areas surrounding them in Hungary, Romania, East poland, etc.

Don't bother repairing resources in france early in game, or even in yugoslavia, poland.

Romania+Hungary should gradually build militia to garrison russia so that german forces can be withdrawn. This is important since allies will likely attempt a landing in europe, and if successful will have to be faced down ASAP by full force of wehrmacht to drive them back. Also, greece and netherlands might turn spontaneously allied at later stages, so you need forces to handle them which are near at hand.

Vichy will only be garrisoned by militia during early stages.

Take denmark only when it becomes necessary, garrison with flak and militia.

---

I have found that AI really can't handle this strategy, at all.
However, I know human Allied/SU opponent will mangle this lopsided Axis emphasis on Soviet attack.

Just sharing tips for the new players.

Thus. Here's a pic of a lineup on the german side in fall '41, just as barbarossa is going to be launched. note in this game hungary didn't join axis, but that isn't critical...what is critical is that romania joins so that the army group south is in position, and to a lesser degree that that finnish support is available post conquest of leningrad.




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zahirkus
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

Same game, screenshot here in 43. Note shifting of heavy bombers to france. Stalingrad is currently soviet...since it was recaptured at some point, but by then the panzer punch has already passed through, and was in supply from the northern sector (there is no working soviet factory there). This is Europe.

BTW this game is with the "arsenal of democracy scenario" where allies + Soviets have increased production.


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zahirkus
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

And here is the pacific.

Japan has three carriers w/air groups southeast of the home islands, and two more carriers in Kyushu + 3 more air groups (one more carrier is one the way).

Bombers are based on pacific islands to harass transports and light fleets that come in range (which are quite a lot since japanese strat bombers are at range=4.)

Partisan warnings are in china and vladivostok since this is beginning of turn, and supply hasn't been delivered to those provinces as yet.

Fog of war is off for all these pics.




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Bo Rearguard
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by Bo Rearguard »

Some solid strategies there. Thank you. [8D]
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
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Shellshock
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by Shellshock »

ORIGINAL: zahirkus
Follow up with double-move panzer thrust to leningrad from east prussia,

Interesting!

Seems like every time I begin an Operation Barbarossa, there is always a substantial Soviet force sitting back in Leningrad which is more than my tanks in East Prussia can overcome. I'll have to give your eight panzer double-move strategy a try.
pzgndr
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by pzgndr »

Is this with the Deluxe AWD mod? 
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Bo Rearguard
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by Bo Rearguard »

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Is this with the Deluxe AWD mod? 

Judging by the the unchanged look of the sea and land areas on the map he posted, I'd say not.
Deluxe AWD made a lot of boundary changes.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
zahirkus
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

No, this isn't deluxe. I'm downloading it right now to see if the grand strategy will work, and if so, how foolproof is it?

I'm also trying to rationalize if this has any basis in reality...meaning, is this all a possible result assuming:

-germany+allies properly prepare for long war, with munitions + prep for winter war (lots of supply)
-first attacks focus on north and south sectors, so that leningrad is secure, and ukraine is fully occupied, while rail and logistics are smashed in the interior. USSR border forces are encircled and nullified (as implied here in east poland), soviet logistics are in disarray due to luftwaffe.
-Japan attacks with overwhelming force in the far east, while pursuing a defensive strategy in China
-while russians fortify moscow and interior, next season axis attacks takes stalingrad, and sweeps the northern sector. Oil supplies are cut, and lend lease never becomes available.
-moscow is isolated, demoralized, and surrenders. USSR falls.
-subsequently, fortress europe comes into being, while Kido Butai has better luck and holds off US navy in the pacific until 46.

I personally think a successful axis strategy would have been possible, assuming they were prepared. The manpower for holding the flanks was definitely there (barbarossa army was slightly bigger than initial red army), and I don't think early red army could push back both flanks esp. w/o lend lease.

Anyway.
zahirkus
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

Worked for me...just make sure you have enough supply to fully repair rail, and ship all your forces. You'll need infantry+art to take out, for example, rostov on turn 2 of the attack, to continue crippling USSR war capacity (turn 3 would be gorki/kazan, turn 4 would be moscow, turn 5 and 6 (maybe 7) should be Urals.
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Bo Rearguard
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by Bo Rearguard »

ORIGINAL: zahirkus
I'm also trying to rationalize if this has any basis in reality.

While I've always admired this game's simplicity, I think one area that does get glossed over is POL, petrol-oil-lubricants. For Germany to build and move the massive panzer armies one can construct in the game would have required access to the kind of known, large oilfields that at the time were hard to find outside the US and parts of Russia.

Germany was particularly deficient in access to petroleum, a necessity for modern mechanized warfare. Germany's answer to this was a synthetic petroleum industry, but this did not even meet the country's need in peace time. It relied heavily on Rumanian production, but this had to be shared with Italy.

Of course, in the game all resource centers and supplies produced by them work the same, be they representing coal, iron or bauxite mining. I know some of the game mods have tried to deal with this issue.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
zahirkus
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by zahirkus »

My experience after trying out the strategy using the deluxe mod:

The initial wave for barbarossa needs some adjustments...
-leningrad can't be taken on the first turn, however infantry and artillery become available to knock it out on turn 2 [turn 2 also sees smolensk, and rostov under assault)
-the paratroops need to be quartered with army group south, not north
-bombing of factories in rostov and leningrad and turn 1 are useful to disable as much war capacity as possible during the initial surprise attack
-USSR border guard must be demoralized and exhausted with probing attacks post-encirclement, else breakout or counterattack is possible (read: hit west poland with militia attacks after encirclement to exhaust supply)
-moscow once isolated from resources can be hit with strategic bombers (on the local resources, not the factories) to render it inert.
-one more panzer division is built so that army group north has 9 panzer units, army group south has 10 panzer units.
-I learn to my dismay that eastern france can't be taken out immediately after poland. This loss of research results in reduced tech investment for fighters, but range=2 is a must.
-Japanese attack on the far east must be modified somewhat to focus on mongolia while still isolating vladivostok before attack.

Also, some clever manuevering of the italian fleet becomes necessary, and screening of the west mediterranean using subs and air power also becomes important (as well as fighter cover for the italian fleet). With luck however it's possible to keep the allied navy out for an extended period.

Japan needs a little more emphasis in early years for land warfare...meaning a couple more infantry + artillery in addition to the heavy bomber emphasis.

Bombing out Chinese war production as Japan poses little challenge.

---
Bear in mind I had some good luck with the Africa campaign, and italian forces managed to seize cairo with essentially no losses (!) just one militia...I wonder how realistic this can possibly be, even with the advantage in numbers they had.

Mostly, this strategy is possible because of the fanatic concentration of USSR forces in moscow, where other fronts become depleted and then pulverized by the tank-heavy axis forces.

However, even a human player would be hard pressed I think to blunt a twin panzer attack, assuming the axis player could get set-up. Either they build low quality troops to stem the tide...or build supply for counterattacks. In either case these forces get annihilated wherever if they make a stand.

My comment on the mod: there should be another set of "gap" provinces intervening between the Urals and Kazan/Stalingrad...the Urals are actually very far away, and it shouldn't be possible to threaten them immediately from the stalingrad zone.

Anyway, here's screen shot after the after first season attacks on the eastern front. Thanks all.


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kettyo
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RE: Solid Axis strategy vs AI

Post by kettyo »

Thanks for sharing! Interesting ideas here. I'll try this strategy too.

Actually the AI is also struggling if you're prioritizing on the Western Allies heavily. After a quick conquest of France you can take Gibraltar from the sea relatively easily most of the time sinch they tend to guard it only with militia initially. Later they will guard it with arty and inf, it's much harder then. After joining the German and Italian navies a Sea Lion has good chances of success and they can't really do anything to stop you in a subsequent invasion of Canada. Germany and Japan needs to improve their air forces from day one to constantly reduce the WA navies. Also important to improve transport capacity to 5 and build some more of them for use in the Atlantic. USA usually activates when Canada is invaded so i time the invasion of Canada to happen in the same time as Japan attacks the USA carriers in California with CAG's and invade Alaska/Canada as well. When USA WR is really low the attack on USA can be delayed until the whole invasion army is in the Americas...it's even better (but unlikely). The USA can't really defend itself on land well and will fall. The USA navy usually concentrates on the Pacific so it will be difficult for Japan to supply/reinforce the troops in Americas. Maybe they can grab the USA Western coast if they are really lucky. Most of the USA will be conquered by Germany. In the meantime the Soviets will declare war and Germany will have to hold out on the front until the invasion army can return to Europe. It is not that difficult since most of the air force can be withdrawn to Europe at that point and the air force is now the stength of the Germans...they're trailing on land. When the Soviets start losing ground against the German forces reinforced by divisions from America the game usually ends with an axis AV.

This strategy would definitely fail against a human opponent since Gibraltar and Britain is not that hard to defend if taken seriously but the AI is seemingly fine tuned for a balanced war on all fronts and can't handle an all out attack in one direction really well.

Best wishes.
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