Gen.Goofy Does Barbarossa vs Orm (No Orm)

[warspite1]

25th August 1941

As a player of limited ability I have had plenty of bad turns - but that was just about the worst...

Army Group North

18th Army take Pskov, allowing 16th Army to venture north. I count a minimum of 5 armies so far.... I think Busch and his men may soon be beating a hasty retreat....

Army Group Centre

This is the real killer. The Soviets appear to have purchased rocket powered Willys lend-lease jeeps. 2nd and 4th Armies have just been left behind and can't keep up with the retreating Soviets. The Germans have killed 4 soldiers and a cat name Rasputin this turn....

That combined with Guderian running out of steam means that all that good work in trying to trap a ton of Soviets has come to nought. There is also now a dangerously large gap forming between 2nd and 4th PzG too.... I suspect there is an army or two forming in the Valdai Hills. I don't know how big the gap is between AGN (16th Army) and AGC (3rd PzG) but it must be hundreds of miles....

[warspite1]

Army Group South

Finally a quick peek at what is going on by the seaside. The Germans await the Siege Artillery and the 4th Romanians while they position to move into the Crimea or north to Zaporozhye as circumstance dictates.

[warspite1]

29th August 1941

Army Group Centre

Correction re the last turn. The one just now hit an all time low. The last of the 'trapped' Soviets reach safety - and even the rearguard prove safe as I cannot even catch them...incredible.... Kaluga and Bryansk fall but its all bit of a forlorn hope - the Soviets have 2-3 lines full of divisions in front of Moscow.

Army Group North

18th Army take Talinn (undefended) so I am hoping that a Paranoia attack will manifest iteself. But regular army units block the approaches to Narva, Novgorod and Luga so there will be no way through there.

Army Group South

Same problems for the southern army group. No AP's mean the 6th Army will probably reach Kursk sometime in 1943 and 17th Army are a shambles. The most exciting thing that happened for the Germans that turn was that the Romanian 8th Infantry made a dash for Mariupol, saw it was occupied, and beat a hasty retreat.

I manage to save some PP but relations with von Leeb and von Rundstedt are only neutral.

[warspite1]

2nd September 1941

My reserve of pp goes for a burton in trying to keep The Fuhrer on side [:@]

Things pick up - albeit marginally - this turn. No change in AGN situation.

Army Group Centre

Three tenuous bridgeheads are gained over the Oka river - one of which is the city of Orel. It is vital that 2nd and 4th Armies can engage the Soviet units around Orel as quickly as possible.



Army Group South

Sometimes I don't understand this game. Three divisions of 6th Army attack a lightly dug in, 15 power, out of command range division at Kursk - and get beaten??

17th Army take Belgorod and Kharkov (both are evacuated by Stalin), 3rd Romanian Army takes Kriwojrog that had been surrounded, and 11th Army walks into Zaporozhye (also vacated by the defenders).

Finally the southern wing of 11th Army (with the aid of the heavy siege artillery) removes the defenders of Perekop and takes the gateway to the Crimea. I suspect they won't be going any further.....

[warspite1]

6th September 1941

Once again I can barely get an attack in this turn.

Army Group North

The units opposing 16th Army are almost entirely red. I therefore decide to retreat a hex or two until I can decide what to do. 18th Army however positions for an attack in the marshes. Unlikely to come off but I have to try something here.

Army Group Centre

The great game of cat and mouse continues. I am going to try and Guderian to cut off some of the Soviets around Tula - again this depends on how quickly each side can move.....

[warspite1]

6th September 1941

The city of Kursk finally falls. Now, and of course with the need to be wary of what the Soviets have east of the Don, I intend to swing 6th Army south to try and assist 17th Army in the quest for Rostov.

[warspite1]

10th September 1941

Another turn of frustration.

Army Group North

I try an all out assault with 18th Army against Soviet units west of Narva - nothing.

Army Group Centre

The enemy moves further away - the Germans cannot keep up. One attack by 6 panzer and motorised divisions is a resounding failure.

Army Group South

Same story. 6th and 17th Army are unable to keep up with the retreating Soviets. 1st PzG remains where it has been or about 5 turns now. Completely out of fuel....

[ChuckBerger]

Three divisions of 6th Army attack a lightly dug in, 15 power, out of command range division at Kursk - and get beaten??

Could be so many things... but you seem to be getting rebuffed on so many attacks, I want to help!

Are you attacking with less than 80AP remaining? In other words, moving a hex or two and then attacking? The problem with doing that is that the first four rounds of every combat are at a steep disadvantage to the attacker. So if you attacked with three divisions against his weak division, but you only had 40AP or 60AP with each of your attackers, I'm not surprised at the result because the combat would only have run for 4 to 6 rounds. Typically you want a combat to run 8 rounds against anything but chaff, and ideally up to 10-14 rounds against a tougher defender.

I suppose another possibility is that the defender wasn't 15 power at all, but a full division that you had imperfect intelligence on. Fog of War can do that sometimes.

(I never use power scores to estimate combat odds, by the way. I find unit readiness is a better thing to keep your eye on, plus of course the reported TOE of the attackers & defenders, and entrenchment.)

Or is there an issue with your own troops? Low supply? Fatigue?

As the German player, my rule of thumb is that you should be losing about 5% of battles. More than that, and you're taking unnecessary losses of men and readiness. Less than that, and you're probably not being quite aggressive enough!

[wadortch]

Hi Chuck

Great insights into the still to me mysterious combat system! So what can you offer about stacking penalties and how you take on big stacks of Soviet defenders who appear not to suffer much at all from overstacking on defense.

[warspite1]

14th September 1941

Mud City dampens the mood somewhat.

Army Group North

Having saved up my best 18th Army divisions, I assault the hex west of Narva once more. I feel like crying. Of the six defenders, I record five orange results.... the sixth is green, the stack holds, and my spirit is broken.....

16th Army remains where it is...

Army Group Centre

3rd Panzer Group continue to try and manoeuvre north of Kalinin but the thick forests make this hard going. I feel like its the prelude to Stalingrad - the German line becomes ever thinner; 9th Army are holding back about a zillion Soviets west of Moscow....

To the south of the capital its the usual story and thousands more troops pour across the river to take up the defence of Moscow while the footsloggers try and keep up. Only a couple of attacks can be made.

Army Group South

Ditto. The 6th and 17th Armies remain largely north of the Donetz as they make their way slowly south, and the 11th Army are too weak to take on forces west of Rostov. The Romanians, having completely surrounded Dnepretovptoyvksdprlovsk, fail miserably to take the city....

[ChuckBerger]

Not wanting to hijack Warspite's AAR... so just a quick reply

I love seeing big Soviet stacks. Gives me a target for encirclement. I'm much more afraid of a sea of single-division hexes, two or three lines deep, which makes useful encirclements or breakthroughs impossible.

As for overstacking: I regularly overstack by up to +30% or more on attack. This is especially the case on a breakthrough hex or other major battle where I care far more about winning the hex and winning it quickly than I do about a few extra losses. Remember the overstacking penalty increases exponentially. So if you're already at 50% overstacked, adding another division is probably not a good idea. But up to about 30-40% overstacked I find the penalties appear to be modest and often worth it.

Aside from just winning the hex, overstacking allows you to get panzer divisions into a breakthrough hex with more AP to keep going, rather than paying a high AP penalty for moving into the hex after the battle is over.

[warspite1]

18th September 1941

Army Group North

I was about to throw my computer out of the window... Having failed to dislodge the Soviets west of Narva because of one green, I tried again this time using the freshest units. Again all orange and one green. Anger was not the word. But when I removed the battle detail and looked at the map, the hex had been vacated. Computer saved - my blood pressure restored, although not sure why the Soviet retreated with a green.

16h Army splits into two (as much as command range will allow). The left wing continues to guard the forest region north of Pskov. The right wing moves onto the lower slopes of the Valdai Hills. No doubt my opponent is attempting a flanking manoeuvre as I detect some units south of Luga as having disappeared.

[warspite1]

18th September 1941

Army Group Centre

As expected the movement by 3rd PzG was detected. The Soviet internal lines of communication have allowed quick reinforcement along the banks of the Tver river.

Reacting to the threat, the Soviets send a handful of divisions from 49th Army to exploit the gap in the junction between 3rd PzG and 9th Army. Oddly enough, this aggressive behaviour actually allows me to attack and destroy a Soviet unit in AGC!! I cannot completely remove the bulge but a Soviet cavalry division is destroyed as I link the retreating 3rd PzG with the left flank of the increasingly stretched 9th Army.

The Soviets pull back slightly east of Kaluga and this allows an attack against a fortified hex by a mixed force from 4th PzG and 4th Army. The attack succeeds and I gain another hex on the north bank of the Oka.

Meanwhile Guderian attacks northwest of Ryazan and forces back a Soviet division guarding the southern bank of the river. 2nd Army cannot get anywhere near the action (quelle surprise) and this leaves Guderian's forces vulnerable to a counter attack.



Army Group South

This sector is a throbbing hive of inactivity....

The German armies cannot attack due to lack of AP. I try one speculative assault with 11th Army but this is rudely rebuffed. I therefore spend the turn trying to position units for an attack next turn.

[warspite1]

22nd September 1941

I love this game, I hate this game, I love this game, I hate this game.....(more of which later)...

Army Group North

Absolutely zilch to report. The 18th Army are recovering still from their exertions, and as I can only get a 2-stack attack next, I do not intend to attempt this until AP (and readiness) are fully up to speed.

Two Corps of 16th Army (4 divisions) continue their reconnaissance of the Valdai Hills looking for advance warning of a Soviet build-up. Nothing so far - although for one moment I thought Novgorod had been left ungarrisoned. A second division (and the increased recce capability that provided) proved otherwise.

Army Group Centre

South of the Moscow-Smolensk highway, Guderian's forces have taken Ryazan - but are not strong enough to even consider moving over the water.

With that in mind I thought I had a great attack in the centre of the front. Three stacks from 4th Army - all 90+ AP (most were 100+) against four Soviets. Yep you can guess the result 3-orange and one green - the Soviets hold [:@]

This left me no choice but to mount another attack against a fortified hex north of Kaluga with 4th PzG. This succeeded but I am left ruing the missed opportunity to get 4th Army firmly established north of the river.

2nd Army remain firmly out of the picture - being unable to catch up the fleeing 20th Army and other units. The only thing this army contributes to my game is that they look pretty in pink...

To the north of the highway, 3rd PzG move back after their wasteful fuel-spending sortie, and 9th Army re-position slightly.

[warspite1]

22nd September 1941

Army Group South

The great yawn.

6th Army get over the Don south of Voronezh - although they should be heading for Rostov, not tooling around up there...

The bulk of 17th Army are south of the Donetz and have taken Pawlograd, while the Romanians STILL wait for the siege artillery in order to try and take Dnepropetrovsk [8|] It was only travelling from Perekop for goodness sake. Must have gone via Warsaw....

11th Army are not strong enough to hit the dug in Soviets - though will look to do so as soon as 17th Army arrive to maximise the pressure on the Soviets.

Other

PP position is okay-ish but I am having to spend too much just to keep the Fuhrer in a reasonable mood.

[warspite1]

26th September 1941

The mud returns....

Army Group North

No movement - and 16th Army reconnaissance comes to a halt as a result of the ground conditions.

18th Army still build up to maximum strength (not that it seems to do much good - see below).

Army Group Centre

Shock horror probe! I demand an investigation! There is a rumour that one division of 2nd Army has attacked someone....

Anyway, von Weichs army still can't provide support to Guderian who continues to plough a lonely furrow. I suspect that von Weichs is a fan of Marshal Grouchy. The order to pursue the enemy has been interpreted as "meander at a pace that suits you in a roughly northeast-ish direction - not forgetting to take in the fine views afforded by the Russian landscape, and the equally impressive examples of Russian Fauna and Flora".

Meanwhile 2nd PzG under Guderian launch three attacks east and west of Ryazan and in each case the Germans get over the river. They need that bridge crossing....

I wonder if 20th Army will try and ford the river or decide to launch a counter-attack? All will no doubt be revealed...

North of the Moscow-Smolensk highway the good work all unravels. Two separate attacks using troops with 90-120 AP (one with a 40% modifier) fail to dislodge the Soviets.

Army Group South

Siege Artillery arrives and the Romanians wait for it to take effect - although frankly I am not at all convinced it will help this bunch of jokers....

The mood remains dark further to the southeast - the 11th Army launch two attacks at full strength against a bunch of largely brown Soviet units but the attacks are rebuffed.

17th Army still has little in the way of AP and can do nothing but sit and wait for the day when the delivery men arrive with some food and arms etc.

6th Army take Voronezh and throw a party. Time for tea and medals. I don't think they are at one with the plan here....

"Ve've taken Voronezh - I sink ve've vun ze vaw! Break out ze schnapps men"

[warspite1]

30th September 1941

The game starts to peter out.

Army Group North

There is no way through south of Narva even with artillery support and fresh units. There is clearly something fundamental I do not understand about the game.

Army Group Centre

Guderian continues to take it to the Soviets - although with blown bridges I am going to need some luck in the repair department.

But for all the good Guderian has done the rest are just rubbish. Fresh units high readiness and AP - makes absolutely no difference against a bunch of brown Soviets supported by two red units - four orange and one green yet again. 9th Army fare even worse - as do 4th PzG. There is simply no more that I can throw at these stacks and they won't budge.

Army Group South

The Romanians take Dneprthingywhatsit thanks to the Siege Artillery but no other attacks are possible. 17th Army stubbornly refuse to discuss delivery of supplies, the panzers have no fuel (and have been in that position almost continually since about the start of August) and the 6th Army is re-enacting the work of d'Erlon's Corps during Ligny/Quatre Bras....

[warspite1]

4th October 1941

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record [:)]

Army Group North

Nothing happening (because the panzers haven't been returned to von Leeb). I cannot return the panzers though until the Soviet defences south of Moscow are broken down. Time is running out fast...

Army Group South

Nothing happening (because of lack of fuel/AP). von Reichenau has been told taking Voronezh is not a war winning move - and has promptly keeled over after suffering a heart attack.

Army Group Centre

A bit more movement - albeit marginal. Lead elements of 3rd PzG cross the river south of Kalinin. 9th Army to the south cannot provide any support as they are still recovering from their exertions over the last couple of turns in trying to clear the Soviets from the marshland east of the river.

The bulk of the Soviet defence is to the southeast of Moscow where Guderian - and Guderian alone - continues to earn his pay. I notice some Soviets scurrying east - no doubt either to Gorki or to try an encirclement of the entire AGS.

To give notice of the latter I keep two divsions of 2nd Army south of the river Oka - the remainder join 2nd PzG north of the water.

4th Army and 4th PzG are still recovering. They both have a wall of Soviets in front of them - lets hope that 4th Army's direct artillery fire can reduce one or more of the forts - or they ain't getting through...

[warspite1]

8th October 1941

Nothing to report. In front of Moscow I tried an attack on the one hex in the front line seemingly without a fortification - and was easily rebuffed. Not surprising perhaps as the defenders had over 200 entrenchment points!

For the second turn running I send a panzer division of 3rd PzG the wrong way by clicking the wrong button. The Soviets move back but the entrenchment points are too great to even contemplate an attack.

Fuel is running low for AGC.....

AGN and AGS nothing to report. Mud has arrived to add to the general feeling of gloom - oh and still no fuel for the panzers. Ho hum.

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

8th October 1941

Nothing to report. In front of Moscow I tried an attack on the one hex in the front line seemingly without a fortification - and was easily rebuffed. Not surprising perhaps as the defenders had over 200 entrenchment points!

I don't think it's possible to have over 200 entrenchment points anywhere without a fortification. Or maybe fog of war can overestimate entrenchments beyond what is physically possible?

As an aside, a long time ago I personally met a former Soviet soldier who in 1945 was sent to Siberia for 5 years for "slandering the Red Army" after he said that the Red Army was unable to dislodge the Germans in the Courland peninsula because they were very well dug in.