Comparison to War in The Pacific - AE

[jeffk3510]

I realize this may not be easy to answer, but I have put a lot of hours into WiTPAE.

That game can be overwhelming at times. I have a love hate with it, but for the most part, I play it regularly.

Could you guys/gals let me know more about this game compared to WiTPAE?

Thanks

[NJ]

Hi,
I bought WitPAE when it was on offer but I gave up on it very quickly - far too much intricate, overwhelming and irrelevant micro detail. Conversely, both Warplan games are intuitive and offer and huge amount of gametime. Plenty of stuff plays out in the background without you needing to bother with it. For context, I've been playing wargames since the mid 80s, both board and later computer stuff. I'm not averse to some overwhelming games (eg Highway to the Reich with nearly 2000 counters!) but WitPAE just blew me away - does anyone actually finish a battle, never mind the whole war? Both Warplan games rank in and around the top of all I have played, with the Europe version edging out in front. Up to you, but I'd give it a whirl - you won't regret it.

[Platoonist]

Could you guys/gals let me know more about this game compared to WiTPAE?

You can finish this game in under a YEAR! I'm very fond of WiTPAE, but it is a massive time-sink.

They are very different games. Scaling down took some time for me. Obviously you're not going to have every AA gun, torpedo tube, or radar device modeled & displayed for you. In War Plan Pacific, ships below the level of carriers and battleships are usually grouped as units. Land units don't get much below divisional and most are corps and armies. The naval system in the War Plan games takes a bit of getting used to. You have to learn to check for battle results when your turn starts, because there are no lengthy animations of air or naval combat. Getting carrier ambushed or interdicted is not uncommon. But even in WiTPAE getting bushwhacked by carriers you didn't realize were there happens too. However, I regard it as a huge improvement over the naval system found in the Strategic Command games which War Plan is similar to. That one ship per hex stacking limit in those games add up to a crowded ocean eventually, and ports which left most ships stuck out at sea.

Probably the biggest relief for most WiTP players is not needing to spend a week or longer just plotting in the opening moves of the game. The Japanese side is also far easier to play too. You don't have to fret over building enough engines to match to your air-frames, expanding particular factories and training individual pilots to perfection in a particular skill. For both sides you can build what units you wish within logistics and economic capability, but the good stuff is usually expensive and takes a long time to build. Sometimes you have to save up your production points.

I can't say the if the AI is any better or worse. The AI in this game certainly has less military hardware to juggle. Actually, to this day I'm amazed that the AI could handle the thousands of ships and planes in WiTP even as uninspired as it often did, but scripting makes a lot of things possible I suppose.

[Nikel]

If you have time for watching youtube videos, Strategy Gaming Dojo created a Let's Play series, he has also played a lot WitP-AE and made some comparisons comments here and there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_L6W5d ... E35mXdki6x

[jeffk3510]

Hi,
I bought WitPAE when it was on offer but I gave up on it very quickly - far too much intricate, overwhelming and irrelevant micro detail. Conversely, both Warplan games are intuitive and offer and huge amount of gametime. Plenty of stuff plays out in the background without you needing to bother with it. For context, I've been playing wargames since the mid 80s, both board and later computer stuff. I'm not averse to some overwhelming games (eg Highway to the Reich with nearly 2000 counters!) but WitPAE just blew me away - does anyone actually finish a battle, never mind the whole war? Both Warplan games rank in and around the top of all I have played, with the Europe version edging out in front. Up to you, but I'd give it a whirl - you won't regret it.

I appreciate all of that. Yes, WiTPAE can be overwhelming at times. I do like it a lot, but this looks like a game that will scratch that same itch, but progress a lot faster, and not be as overwhelming. I doubt you have to train floatplane pilots on BBs in the pilot pool in both ASW and Naval Search abilities... and then set the correct altitude for their respective planes.

i went back and re read yours again. Glad to know this is near the top. It does look really good.

You're saying Europe version is better than the Pacific?

thanks

[jeffk3510]

If you have time for watching youtube videos, Strategy Gaming Dojo created a Let's Play series, he has also played a lot WitP-AE and made some comparisons comments here and there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_L6W5d ... E35mXdki6x

Thank you very much. I will watch these when I can find some time.

[jeffk3510]

Could you guys/gals let me know more about this game compared to WiTPAE?

You can finish this game in under a YEAR! I'm very fond of WiTPAE, but it is a massive time-sink.

They are very different games. Scaling down took some time for me. Obviously you're not going to have every AA gun, torpedo tube, or radar device modeled & displayed for you. In War Plan Pacific, ships below the level of carriers and battleships are usually grouped as units. Land units don't get much below divisional and most are corps and armies. The naval system in the War Plan games takes a bit of getting used to. You have to learn to check for battle results when your turn starts, because there are no lengthy animations of air or naval combat. Getting carrier ambushed or interdicted is not uncommon. But even in WiTPAE getting bushwhacked by carriers you didn't realize were there happens too. However, I regard it as a huge improvement over the naval system found in the Strategic Command games which War Plan is similar to. That one ship per hex stacking limit in those games add up to a crowded ocean eventually, and ports which left most ships stuck out at sea.

Probably the biggest relief for most WiTP players is not needing to spend a week or longer just plotting in the opening moves of the game. The Japanese side is also far easier to play too. You don't have to fret over building enough engines to match to your air-frames, expanding particular factories and training individual pilots to perfection in a particular skill. For both sides you can build what units you wish within logistics and economic capability, but the good stuff is usually expensive and takes a long time to build. Sometimes you have to save up your production points.

I can't say the if the AI is any better or worse. The AI in this game certainly has less military hardware to juggle. Actually, to this day I'm amazed that the AI could handle the thousands of ships and planes in WiTP even as uninspired as it often did, but scripting makes a lot of things possible I suppose.

A time sink is a good way to put it. I will always play it when the time permits, but it is very time consuming - I agree. I do think scaling things down will be good in the long run, and I will like it a lot more. It is disappointing to play the game for YEARS, and still be in late 42' early 43' on single day turns. I would like to play Japan in AW as well, but the production system is a whole other learning curve as well.

I do like the production aspect of it for BOTH sides

I will be getting this game, and start on it whenever things slow down here. Kids are very busy with fall sports/school. I really only have time in the evenings, and winter is better for that.

Thank you for the reply

[stjeand]

I will say Europe is better ONLY due to it being out longer and has had more players and more time to work out oddities / issues.

I enjoy WPP a lot and play it more than I do WPE...

WPE does not have "hidden" ships which basically means the German fleet can't hide and that removes a lot of fun in my eyes.

I HOPE in WP2 that will be addressed.

UK should get a message...the Bismarck has left port...and then the search is on.
For me that will be a LOT more fun.

[Platoonist]

A time sink is a good way to put it. I will always play it when the time permits, but it is very time consuming - I agree. I do think scaling things down will be good in the long run, and I will like it a lot more. It is disappointing to play the game for YEARS, and still be in late 42' early 43' on single day turns. I would like to play Japan in AW as well, but the production system is a whole other learning curve as well.

I do like the production aspect of it for BOTH sides

I will be getting this game, and start on it whenever things slow down here. Kids are very busy with fall sports/school. I really only have time in the evenings, and winter is better for that.

Yeah, WiTP can be very compelling game in terms of the day-to-day action. But the glacial pace of the overall war can grind you down after a while. WPP does move at a much more brisk pace.

[Platoonist]

UK should get a message...the Bismarck has left port...and then the search is on.
For me that will be a LOT more fun.

That does sound like it would spice up the Battle of the Atlantic a bit.

[NJ]

I only say WP Europe has the edge on WPP purely because I'm from the UK and can just about remember the elder relatives who were in the thick of it - the Desert War, Italy, Arctic convoys, Pedestal, and even in the fire brigade at home etc.
Both games have a subtle atmosphere difference, with different sets of problems to think about. Listening to your detail on WitPAE I'm glad I didn't stay friends with it!

[AlvaroSousa]

WPP sold about 40% as much as WPE. It's expected as players are not as interested in the Pacific as they are Europe.

[jeffk3510]

I only say WP Europe has the edge on WPP purely because I'm from the UK and can just about remember the elder relatives who were in the thick of it - the Desert War, Italy, Arctic convoys, Pedestal, and even in the fire brigade at home etc.
Both games have a subtle atmosphere difference, with different sets of problems to think about. Listening to your detail on WitPAE I'm glad I didn't stay friends with it!

That's really cool - appreciate you sharing that. My only grandma left talks about being here during that as well. Nothing like as close to it as yours were. She just wanted her dad to come home safely - my great grandpa. Not very many left around at all to talk about that with. I think I read the other day there aren't any members of "Easy Company" alive any more.

WiTPAE will always stay on my computer, and receive turns from me here and there. It's just overwhelming at times.

My favorite of all time is PTOII for the SNES from when I was a kid - still have it/play it. Was fascinated with it. All the KOEI games to be honest.

I will be getting this - thanks for all the information.

[jeffk3510]

WPP sold about 40% as much as WPE. It's expected as players are not as interested in the Pacific as they are Europe.

Ok - thank you for that info.

I will probably get both to be honest.

I did get WIF when it came out as well. Last I knew there still wasn't any multiplayer. I love the map/counters etc - brings back my childhood of playing it on the table.

[jeffk3510]

A time sink is a good way to put it. I will always play it when the time permits, but it is very time consuming - I agree. I do think scaling things down will be good in the long run, and I will like it a lot more. It is disappointing to play the game for YEARS, and still be in late 42' early 43' on single day turns. I would like to play Japan in AW as well, but the production system is a whole other learning curve as well.

I do like the production aspect of it for BOTH sides

I will be getting this game, and start on it whenever things slow down here. Kids are very busy with fall sports/school. I really only have time in the evenings, and winter is better for that.

Yeah, WiTP can be very compelling game in terms of the day-to-day action. But the glacial pace of the overall war can grind you down after a while. WPP does move at a much more brisk pace.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks for all the help on this. Like I've mentioned above, I will be getting this or both.

Thanks

[jeffk3510]

I will say Europe is better ONLY due to it being out longer and has had more players and more time to work out oddities / issues.

I enjoy WPP a lot and play it more than I do WPE...

WPE does not have "hidden" ships which basically means the German fleet can't hide and that removes a lot of fun in my eyes.

I HOPE in WP2 that will be addressed.

UK should get a message...the Bismarck has left port...and then the search is on.
For me that will be a LOT more fun.

I will get it as well - probably start with Pacifc, but thank you for this.

Both sound like solid, fun games.

[Platoonist]

WPP sold about 40% as much as WPE. It's expected as players are not as interested in the Pacific as they are Europe.

I've long had the feeling that a lot of that difference in interest comes down to the nature of the fighting in Europe as well.

Or, as a veteran East Front gamer once said when offered a match in WitP. ---"No tanks".

Well, not in the starring role anyway.

[ncc1701e]

Just my opinion. WITP-AE has everything. Warplan Pacific is much simpler. But, for me, its main problems are:
1. manpower to reinforce units, in port supply, is not using ships.
2. supplies rules over sea are just too over simplified. Ship interception is not simulated enough vs subs, planes, ...
3. naval interception is incredibly gamey, killing any attempt to have a realistic naval engagement.
4. ships damage are repaired much too quickly.
5. naval effectiveness lost at sea is not improving with technology level.

WITE-AE has everything indeed but it is incredibly complex too.

In summary, I'm still waiting for a game of average complexity about the Pacific. WP2 perhaps?

[Platoonist]

WITE-AE has everything indeed but it is incredibly complex too.

Everything, but over the years players clamored for more. A more intricate land combat system. R&R periods for subs, and crew fatigue ratings for ships. Map scale decreased to 20 NM per hex. The rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy represented. German raiders and U-Boats. Chinese warlords and factions. Diplomacy. Rice harvests. Road and rail construction. Full Allied production, etc.

It'd probably require a whole other lifetime to play a sequel. But it doesn't seem there will ever be one.

[Bo Rearguard]

Everything, but over the years players clamored for more. A more intricate land combat system. R&R periods for subs, and crew fatigue ratings for ships. Map scale decreased to 20 NM per hex. The rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy represented. German raiders and U-Boats. Chinese warlords and factions. Diplomacy. Rice harvests. Road and rail construction. Full Allied production, etc.

Don't forget Japanese balloon bombs. There needs to be Japanese balloon bombing. I can't believe how many games have overlooked this critical aspect of WW2.