Question: Evasive Manoeuvres

[Quark73]

Hi,
I attached two scenarios four F-4 Phantoms passing a SAM site (S-75 and S-300) in different flight levels. Idea is to see the evasive manoeuvres, when they start how the look like etc. .

Q1: It seems the planes stick with their flight level, regardless if the missile comes from above or from underneath. I would expect that they try to outclimb and outdive the missiles, unlike as seen in this video by pgatcomb (link). What circumstances must apply to make the aircraft change it's altitude?

Q2: It looks to me that there is a fixed threshold for start manoeuvring at 15 nm until contact is lost. This leads to a IMHO rather odd behaviour with high performance missiles as S-300. They pick up the illumination radar, the ground station tracks the missile in it's initial phase with a clear collision vector to the plane but lose the contact -as I assume - because of the speed filter introduced with 1328.18 before the missile closes to 15 nm. So the plane cold blooded sticks with it's course until impact. Is there way to make evasion more anticipating?

Q3: It looks like the speed filter is set to 3450 kts. The radar loses sight at exactly this value and the missile gets invisible. Funnily enough this is the exact max speed for the missile, so it gets the exact speed to become stealth. It looks like the speed filter works with absolute speed figures. Shouldn't it work with radial speed component of the contact?

[Tcao]

Q2: It looks to me that there is a fixed threshold for start manoeuvring at 15 nm until contact is lost. This leads to a IMHO rather odd behaviour with high performance missiles as S-300. They pick up the illumination radar, the ground station tracks the missile in it's initial phase with a clear collision vector to the plane but lose the contact -as I assume - because of the speed filter introduced with 1328.18 before the missile closes to 15 nm. So the plane cold blooded sticks with it's course until impact. Is there way to make evasion more anticipating?

Yes, that sucks. they don't do evasion because they don't see where the missile is.

the scenario starts at dusk, change it to day seems to partially solve the issue, Mk1 eyeballs will see the missile at 3nm-5nm distance

[blu3s]

That's a good scenario and a good report.

Logged 0015885

In my personal opinion any aircraft that receives continuous illumination on its RWR should go into defensive maneuvers and even more so if accompanied with the ACK of a missile launch.

Unfortunately some “players” protest quite a bit when their aircraft go into defensive maneuvers because “the missiles” are not specifically aimed at that aircraft, when the reality of course is not like that and everyone goes into defensive maneuvers when there is a SAM in the air and the RWR sounds.

[Quark73]

That's a good scenario and a good report.

Logged 0015885

Thank you for your response. May I ask what is considered under this issue number? The just behaviour acc. Q2? Or does it also take respect to 2D-only manoeuvring (Q1) and the Doppler-Filter (Q3)? If Q1 and Q3 is WAD I would be happy to understand the rational behind it.

Kind Regards,
Quark

[blu3s]

The issue that is being investigated is the AI defensive maneuvers for aircrafts, not only this particular case, but in a broader sense, so it will take some time.

Depending on the distance, if the aircraft has time, it will descend in altitude to avoid the missile, if it does not have time, it will flee in the axis perpendicular to the launch to try to break the FCR lock.

Regarding 3 it will also be checked

[Quark73]

Cool, Thank you!