Too many guards units!

[Joel Billings]

Can I ask how you figure that the Soviets can get 178 guard RDs at the start of StoB? Clearly guards creation is impacted by game changes which have over time have made things harder for the Soviets. I'm not against tweaking the limits, but would be good to hear the numbers behind your statements. Thanks.

[GibsonPete]

Jubjub please do not take the remark about creating Axis elite units as anything but a jest. Although in WITE you had the 78th Sturm Division who became elite based on its battle history. My personal view is if the Soviets can create that many Guard units that's fine with me.

[jubjub]

It looks like I calculated the original number based on the maximum limits. The at start TOE allows for 129 Guards Rifle Divisions. The maximum if you build rifle divisions to the limit though is (41*3 + 469 + 148/3 + 58/3)*.25 = 165. I must have miscalculated the first time.

Really, this number is irrelevant, and the numbers to compare are the StB starting TOE and a typical '41 campaign around the same time (with a human soviet player). If you compare these, the only conclusion is that Guards status is too easy to achieve and/or too numerous. A typical '41 game will have guards rifle divisions maxed out by this time around 120-130, whereas the historical TOE only has 65 guards rifle divisions. This means that there are almost twice as many guards divisions on the map as was historical!

Maybe this is not as doable any more with the new changes/buffs to the Axis, but this has been my experience so far.

[Joel Billings]

This has likely changed since release as the changes have generally made things easier for the Germans. Depending on where you stand on the 1.01.15 combat changes, they may be much harder now for the Soviets which is bound to have an impact on their guards creation. At this point I don't think anyone can say for sure how much has really changed, and how much it will impact guards creation. Adjusting the chance of units become guards is probably not that difficult, but getting the feedback to know what the right level would be now is the hard part.

[Gam3r]

Actually that was not so easy to get all those guards.

Get none in september due to lack of wins, and that was before the patches.

First came in late Dec or Jan IIRC.

Actually my first guard unit was division in Far East. (that i cannot move due to game setting). My RD having 9 wins didnt get guard status. same for tank and mech. Cav is converted pretty fast.

in 42 get guards like every turn. either RD or Tank Bde.

Now we have rulechange that postpone the Guard Tanks TOE. And with much more stronger Axis forces maybe there no reason to change rules for obtainnig guard status.

[AlbertN]

I am not seeing 'much stronger' Axis forces. Actually they got 'nerfed' by the National Morale change hammering them in july '42 already.

I am not sure of the Guard numbers - but another thing to evaluate is that Guard Corps must be composed of all Guard Units too and not 2/3. Sure the Guard Units are mighty strong already in '42.

[GibsonPete]

AlbertN is right the apple barrel does improve by mixing bad with good.

[Gam3r]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I am not seeing 'much stronger' Axis forces. Actually they got 'nerfed' by the National Morale change hammering them in july '42 already.

But first Guards come in Sep 41 not in Jul 42. And you must survive to that date. And now i can't stop novice Axis at the Smolensk as i usually do before the patch. So the Axis stronger enough to prevent me from getting victories and guard units when they needed the most.

[AlbertN]

Are you professing that the Soviets under the Arty-Patch cannot get Guard Units? Because sure my PvP Opponent has loads of Guard Units all across the map - and started to get some in Nov or Dec '41, which I think it's the first occasion where Guards can get promoted.

[Gam3r]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Are you professing that the Soviets under the Arty-Patch cannot get Guard Units?

I say that it might be later than before.

100th RD awarded Guards status on 18 sep 1941. So if you get them in november that is already win for Axis