Combat Resolution Screen

[loudscott]

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I don't understand how the Soviets lost (Elements Destroyed) more elements then they had in the battle? Am I not understanding this screen correctly? Moreover, adding the destroyed figures on the Ground Combat tab (not counting Vehicles) totals 896 whilst on the General Info Tab the total destroyed is 569 elements. The Total column does in fact add up to 1024 (not counting Vehicles) which is the same as the General Info Tab.

And as a follow up question I'd like to understand what the Disrupted column is telling me. Given that 243 Soviet rifle squads participated in the battle and somehow 324 were destroyed where/whom exactly are the 160 disrupted Soviet rifle squads? Is this telling me how many were disrupted BEFORE the final resolution of combat? In other words these elements were subsequently destroyed? If so I'm not sure how this info is useful. Or is it supposed to be indicating how many of the remaining elements are currently disrupted. The 2nd explanation is what I had previously thought but now I'm not so sure. Anyone's input would be appreciated.

[loudscott]

Just figured out it is because of the "Destroyed Damage" toggle. Doh

However, I'm still a little confused the Disrupted figures so that question still stands. If anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate that.

[Wiedrock]

I don't understand how the Soviets lost (Elements Destroyed) more elements then they had in the battle? Am I not understanding this screen correctly?

Do not use the "DAMAGED (DESTROYED)" toggle-checkbox in this specific window. For all other tabs it's fine/working but in the Ground Losses Tab it's somewhat double-counting stuff in the Destroyed TOTals area. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7&t=394096

Moreover, adding the destroyed figures on the Ground Combat tab [?] (not counting Vehicles) totals 896 whilst on the General Info Tab the total destroyed is 569 elements. The Total column does in fact add up to 1024 (not counting Vehicles) which is the same as the General Info Tab.

Trying to answer (If I get your point), first of all I guess you mean the Ground Losses Tab (correct me if I am wrong!).
The Totals should be all fine in your case (correct sum). The TOT DESTROYED in your Ground Losses Tab are 800+ due to double counting as mentioned before.

Further, not sure if there have been any improvements to this recently, but from my latest testing you can/could ignore/erase the Ground Elements TOTAL of the General Info Tab number once there is any kind of Disruption before combat (River, Blizzard...).
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5#p5046515

And as a follow up question I'd like to understand what the Disrupted column is telling me. Given that 243 Soviet rifle squads participated in the battle and somehow 324 [325?] were destroyed where/whom exactly are the 160 disrupted Soviet rifle squads? Is this telling me how many were disrupted BEFORE the final resolution of combat? In other words these elements were subsequently destroyed? If so I'm not sure how this info is useful. Or is it supposed to be indicating how many of the remaining elements are currently disrupted. The 2nd explanation is what I had previously thought but now I'm not so sure. Anyone's input would be appreciated.

Short:
SURRENDERED and ROUTED are both causing heavy "Reatreat Attrition" (RTR), all Elements which have not previously been DEStroyed can be DAM or DES by RTR. That's why you have 160 DISrupted during combat but many of those were additionally DAM or DES during their ROUT/SURRENDER.

Long:
As already said, the TOTAL for DES in this window is off when [X] DESTROED 'DAMAGED' is activated.
Each "result" DES/DAM/DIS has four collumns:

• GND - events/hits with effect during this ground-phase
• AIR - events/hits with effect during the air-phase (happens before GND phase)
• RTR - events/hits with effect when retreating (no matter which "type of lost battle")
• TOT - Sum of all (GND+AIR+RTR), for DES only correct if [X] DESTROED 'DAMAGED' is deactivated

With "events" I mean hits with effect (any kind of). The battle has several Phases (Air/[Artillery]/Ground), The Ground Phase is divided into several range-encounters, so multiple shots can be done by a Ground Element. Sometimes in the combat log you can see stuff like (not exactly using this phrases):

• Y got DISruted
• Y got DAMaged
• Y got DEStroyed
• "X has destroyed damaged Y"

How I understand this, a DAM Ground Element can be targeted again after previously being damaged, hence the "DESTROYED 'DAMAGED'-toggle option.
This is afaik is not specified/mentioned/the case for re-targeting DIS Ground Elements, not 100% sure how it goes there, I assume they are out of the game until their RTR is calculated.
For your case:

• you have not DES any previously DAM elements (0) during Combat
• but (327) of your previously 334+1=335 DAM Elements got DES by RTR
• Of 1024Elements-(471DIS+335DAM+118DES)=100
  So you did hit all but 100 elements during Combat.
• DESTROYED > Retreat 451 (327) >> 124, so even if all (unlikely) those 100 not previously hit elements would have been DES by RTR, you'd be left with 24 which would need to come from your previously DIS pool, therefore those would be shown in the TOT of your Disrupted and Destroyed (inside the Ground Losses Tab).

[loudscott]

Once again thank you for the detailed response. After doing some more testing on my own and reading your comments it's all starting to come together for me. When I was playing this back in 2021 I hadn't got far enough into the mechanics to delve this far into the data weeds. But now I'm trying to gain a much deeper understanding and appreciation for the data delivered by the game. Thanks gain for taking the time!

[Wiedrock]

Another thing to add is, that units not participating in a battle, but being in the same Hex and forced to retreat suffer RTR. This can also confuse the numbers (losing more then what's shown of being in the battle).
Some cases are:

• HQs
• Routed Units on top of normal ones
• Airfield AA
• ...not sure about City AA or construction units in cities...

[loudscott]

Thanks for that, you probably just headed off another confused post from me in the future

[loudscott]

Further, not sure if there have been any improvements to this recently, but from my latest testing you can/could ignore/erase the Ground Elements TOTAL of the General Info Tab number once there is any kind of Disruption before combat (River, Blizzard...).[/size]
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5#p5046515

Has the latest update corrected this?

[Wiedrock]

Currently I guess it's exactly working as written in the Errata, I thought I'd have seen a difference when doing cross-river attacks in the Combat predictor numbers some weeks ago but I may have missed the density in the defenders hex when testing .

From what I see u usually lose about ~~15-35% of your CV when attacking across a small river, ofc depends on elements and commander and +whatnot. I guess because of that many influencing factors it can't be simply put into the predictor CV number.
But the TOTALS number in the first tab of the Combat Resolution Window is still wrong when there are Disrruptions by rivers.