Some fleet observation and fuel optimization

[Jorgen_CAB]

I have tried to observe how fleets operate while they are on automatic (1.1.8.1), in my case all fleet settings are manual except individual fleets are automated and I decide where their home bases are etc.

The one most annoying thing is how the AI evaluate when it need to refuel and when to prioritise other missions. They also can sit at a fuel stations at nearly half full of fuel and wait for a mission years on end without refuel the fleet, this is especially noticeable if you don't have a fuel tanker assigned that will top them off as the fleet are standing still with no mission. I repeatedly have to refuel fleets if they don't spend enough fuel on a mission.

Now... when the fleet above mentioned flies off to do a mission they are likely not going to be able to get back as they started with little fuel to begin with. Let's say the fleet do battle and get a few damaged ships, now they will go and repair. Perhaps this repair facility is out of fuel range... the fleet will not check if there is a refuel station nearby before it tries to perform the repair mission. Even if the fleet had some tankers they will fly off and try and repair and not allow the tankers to refuel the fleet first.

Fleets can gladly rebase even if the new base is outside their fuel range if you have that automation option enabled. So, if the fleet have tankers they will not be used, if there is a refuelling station close by it will not try to go there for a mid point refuelling.

If you play with AI automation in any form you MUST make sure that ships have way more internal fuel tanks than perhaps you actually need. It does not seem to cope well with shorter fuel ranges in general, at least I have to babysit my fleets to make sure they stay and wait to refuel from tankers or does not try to run off and refit or repair with too little fuel to reach the destination.

The general issue is that automated fleet do not check what amount of fuel it has and if it should refuel before doing anything else. Fleets with no tankers should always calculate where the nearest refuelling point is and how much their minimum fuel should be based on them going there and back to home base plus maybe another 10-15%.
If the fleet have tankers then it is less of an issue as they will refuel the fleet if it has no missions. But fleet with a tanker should always prioritise refuelling from tankers before taking on any missions. If they are in a dangerous place they should plot a course to the nearest none dangerous place and wait for their tankers to refuel them. Only then should they start performing any other missions. It is way too often I see fleets performing missions they can't reach with the fuel range they have, especially repair and refit missions after another mission as these are likely to not be close to their home base.

I don't have any specific save to demonstrate this, this is just observations from playing allot of games and that I tend to have to babysit the fleet to make sure they don't run out of fuel. Since I design the fleets/ships with as little fuel as possible depending on what I want them to do. This is especially true for small defensive fleets.

I'm sure it is my playstyle that to some degree break the AI, but I see this in completely AI based games too, but not as much as the AI tend to put enough fuel cells on the ships that the problem is not as noticeable.

[iancmtaylor]

From extensive experiences trying to mod the game, it is very evident that the game just does not work at all with less than about 500m range. Less than 750 experiences some problems still. At 1+ billion it's usually 'okay'.

*at default galaxy gen settings

[Jorgen_CAB]

From extensive experiences trying to mod the game, it is very evident that the game just does not work at all with less than about 500m range. Less than 750 experiences some problems still. At 1+ billion it's usually 'okay'.

*at default galaxy gen settings

Yes, that seem to be my experience as well. But I do hope the game logic could be improved as that would overall improve how the game work and function and would make sure the AI work better even in edge cases or different playstyles.

It also means the AI struggles more with low technology than high technology, which might not be the best thing as low technology is always going to be part of the game while high technology is not always used, depending on how long you play each session. I tend to quit most game somewhere at mid to high technology for various reasons so low tech is more common in my game than high tech.

I then also play with the slowest tech progression in combination with this that makes it even worse.

[MaximKI]

Thanks for the notes and observations. There seem to be clear areas of further improvement for fleets and AI automation. We do request that if you have any saves that show evidence of the issues you're seeing, please post them up either in this forum on the official DW2 Discord server.

[Jorgen_CAB]

My main issue is that I play almost exclusively on heavily modded games, my own modding. So not sure how much value those saves are to you. Although I have enough understanding of the AI in the game that I'm very certain my modding does not interfere with this particular issue.

But I can take some saves from my next game to better illustrate my points.

[Beric01]

Just want to concur with the above discussion. Fuel tanks are a massive QOL improvement due to this. I would like to see AI fleets never leave to take on a mission unless they have determined they have enough fuel to get there and back plus margin. If they don't, top off fuel first then go.

[MaximKI]

My main issue is that I play almost exclusively on heavily modded games, my own modding. So not sure how much value those saves are to you. Although I have enough understanding of the AI in the game that I'm very certain my modding does not interfere with this particular issue.

But I can take some saves from my next game to better illustrate my points.

Any saves, screenshots, and videos you can provide that show what you're talking about are greatly appreciated as that will go a long way to help us understand how best to improve the game.