Delay before capture fleets can capture again

[100thMonkey]

Platform: Steam
Build version: v1.1.7.1 Beta (started with 1.1.6.5)
Severity: Low
Annoyance factor: High
Confusion for new players: High
Saved game:

The Culture - Quameno - 2862-11-16.7z

(7.02 MiB) Downloaded 14 times

I used to be able to give a capture order to a fleet immediately after it had completed a previous capture. This is no longer the case: there’s now a delay before the fleet can accept a new capture order. I can give it an attack order immediately (as before), but if I try to give a capture order, the capture commands do not appear in the potential target's right-click menu.

I believe that started with v1.1.7.1.

You should be able to reproduce this behavior from the save. Let the fleet Grabbers 2 complete the capture of the Endenur 7 mining station (should be almost immediate). Then, pause the game and try to order Grabbers 2 to capture another Dhayut mining station in the system. It won’t be possible. You won't even if you unpause the game (you'll have to wait an indeterminate amount of time).

Having to wait before being able to give a capture order to a fleet is fairly annoying while at war and having to manually manage all that’s going on. Currently, at best, I can give the fleet an order to move toward the next capture target, and by the time it reaches the said target, it will likely be ready to capture again. But in the middle of a war, it’s easy to forget to check back on the fleet, or to remember only after the fleet has reached its target for a while (and there are no message warning that the (manually managed) fleet has arrived at its destination / has completed its current “mission” (move to), which would be nice to have ).

Even if the fleet isn’t ready yet to capture immediately after doing the previous capture, let’s say because of a "necessary" (for immersion?) cool-down period, it still should be possible to give it the order right away, as it was previously.

[MaximKI]

Thanks for the report! Do you mind seeing if you can still reproduce this issue on 1.1.7.2, which we just released today?

[100thMonkey]

I've just tested with 1.1.7.2, continuing with the same game, and the delay is still there.

[100thMonkey]

I’ve just noticed, in the selection panel of a capture fleet that isn’t ready to capture again, that it has 0 boarding assault strength:

Assault strength 0.png (240.25 KiB) Viewed 895 times

Is this how it’s supposed to be?

I don’t think that is the source of the delay though, because even if my other capture fleet also has 0 boarding assault strength, I was able to give it a capture order:

Can capture with 0 strength.png (181.14 KiB) Viewed 895 times

I’ve created another save. If it’s useful for you to have it, let me know and I’ll upload it.

[100thMonkey]

Continuing with the same game, it now seems that there is a correlation with a fleet having 0 boarding assault strength after a previous capture and not being able to order another capture right away. Twice now I've been able to immediately order another capture to a fleet that had some boarding assault strength left after the previous capture.

In my mind, that apparent correlation doesn't mean that it's "right" that I'm not able to assign a new capture order if the fleet has 0 boarding assault left. If the fleet's ships have components that allows capture, I should be able to order it to capture, even if it's not at full strength currently.

[StormingKiwi]

Deliberate mindboggingly confusing change in 1.1.7.1 per patch notes:

FLEET AND SHIP BEHAVIOR
- fleets can now only assign Capture missions when at least one of their ships has current active assault pod availability
- ships are now better at retaining their Capture mission when other ships at the location have current assault pod availability but they do not
- further improvements to Capture mechanics are coming in a future update.

This is NOT an improvement.

[100thMonkey]

Deliberate mindboggingly confusing change in 1.1.7.1 per patch notes:

FLEET AND SHIP BEHAVIOR
- fleets can now only assign Capture missions when at least one of their ships has current active assault pod availability
- ships are now better at retaining their Capture mission when other ships at the location have current assault pod availability but they do not
- further improvements to Capture mechanics are coming in a future update.

I would indeed like some clarifications about the second point: does it apply to:

- fleet ships?
- out-of-fleet ships?
- both?

Is there something else that isn't clear to you?

This is NOT an improvement.

I'd like captures to get much more love from the devs than they've got up to now. So what's been done in this patch is at least "something". I'm also glad to hear that there will be more improvements in the future (no doubt thanks, in part at least, to how important captures are for the Gizureans). May I ask why you think that these things are not improvements?

[StormingKiwi]

Deliberate mindboggingly confusing change in 1.1.7.1 per patch notes:

FLEET AND SHIP BEHAVIOR
- fleets can now only assign Capture missions when at least one of their ships has current active assault pod availability
- ships are now better at retaining their Capture mission when other ships at the location have current assault pod availability but they do not
- further improvements to Capture mechanics are coming in a future update.

I would indeed like some clarifications about the second point: does it apply to:

- fleet ships?
- out-of-fleet ships?
- both?

Is there something else that isn't clear to you?

This is NOT an improvement.

I'd like captures to get much more love from the devs than they've got up to now. So what's been done in this patch is at least "something". I'm also glad to hear that there will be more improvements in the future (no doubt thanks, in part at least, to how important captures are for the Gizureans). May I ask why you think that these things are not improvements?

Of course. However, given this thread’s context, I’m unsure how to answer your question.

The changes were made deliberately, as documented by the patch notes, and it was immediately reported as an annoying and confusing bug.

Now, changing the interface to make the player’s ability to issue a capture order context-dependent and denying it outright in some scenarios is not part of the capture mechanics but UX.
Given that post-change, the change was identified as a bug, it is difficult to understand how it improved the player experience. It seems to be a solution in search of a problem.


As for love for boarding captures and attention from the devs, I'd be interested to know what your perceived deficiencies and problems of the existing system are?

[maggiecow]

I use capture fleets extensively and think they're borderline OP, not that they should be nerfed!!!

I noticed ships needing a rest to regenerate boarders in every version I've played so not sure this is something new. I think you could always issue the order but if you didn't have marines (or whatever) on board it wouldn't go through with it. Am I misunderstanding the problem?

For me, effective capture fleets have only capture pod ships with enough weapons to get the shields down. In your face engagement range etc. If the temptation is to add a pure warship to the fleet to get the shields down faster it tends to go south quickly.

Oh, should add that there's a problem with the UI, in general, to explain why you can't do what you want to do. A brief pop-up explaining why what you want isn't going to happen, which I'm sure is against the design philosophy, would help in many, many cases.