Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

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artao5
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Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

I've seen too many typos and grammatical errors now in briefings, scenario descriptions, the database; even the manual and addenda.
Using "your" rather than "you're" is disturbingly prevalent; pretty clearly not simply a typo. Also 'to' rather than 'too' and 'it's vs its' and 'there/their/they're,' and just typos in general. Sometimes there's clearly missing phrases or words entirely. Sometimes sentences are repeated; or even cut off. Sometimes database statistics are repeated. Sometimes sentences are clearly written by non-native English speakers. (No judgement there. My German grammar sind scheisslich.)
Spell checkers and grammar checkers exist, people.
Some people may think this is petty griping. Pedantry. People make mistakes.
Yes. People make mistakes. THIS tho is egregious. I've been blowing all of these off for weeks now, but ... <sigh> I can't hold my tongue any longer. Seriously. This needs attention.
For such an expensive product, I would expect a very high level of professionalism and polish. This is not apparent in the text all over the game. And frankly a HUGE portion of this game is all about the text. (I'd almost swear I spend more time reading than actually simulating LOL. Between the DB and mission editor and etc. windows of text)
Perhaps you simply need an actual editor for all the text. I would be willing to take a crack at it for reasonable compensation. (Including simply campaigns/game content) I attempted to be a professional fiction writer and I have had a LOT of office jobs that involved that very thing, so I am very good at it. There is A LOT to go through tho, so I'm not sure a single editor would suffice.

The database. Thankfully I can use the Windows 'increase font size/zoom' feature (ctrl-mouse wheel; which also zooms the pictures, which is nice. Bonus!), but it doesn't remember the setting. Also, it only works in the lower portion of the window, not the upper ones. None of the windows that allow this feature remember the setting. It doesn't re-use windows that are open when clicking things outside the open database window. I'm sure some like this behavior, but I'd prefer to only open new windows when I tell it to. There's even a specific button to do just that. Perhaps a user-toggle option. The CW database entry for the Big Back radar is missing several statistics; and that's not the only one I've noticed between either one. (Perhaps I'll attempt to start keeping a list of faulty DB entries.)

Now, the UI.
- I've previously brought up font sizes being tiny and hard to read. I have since noticed I can use the Windows "increase/decrease font size/zoom" functions to make some windows more readable. (Awesome feature for web pages. I use it constantly.)
But not everywhere. Only in some dialogs. This needs to be fixed to be usable in all windows please. Some software doesn't allow it at all, so thanks for at least partially allowing it. And in split-region windows it usually only works in one section or none, such as the DB. It works on images too, so that's cool.
- Also simply the fonts themselves. The datablock font in particular I find hard to read, and the standard information box that's at your mouse or bottom of the screen can be a challenge. Both depending on the view layer being used. An outlined or drop-shadow font would likely help with that a lot. The darkened background on the info box is nice but doesn't always work. Some people like serif fonts, some don't. Some prefer fixed space fonts, some don't care. Me? Arial, all the way. Sometimes Console. Fonts are extremely important in this game due to all the reading needed. (At least the game is dark-themed. ;) )
- Some dialog boxes are resizable while others are not. And yet they show the resizing arrow when you hover the mouse on the edges. In many split-region windows you can't resize the individual regions, but in some you can. Resizing columns in various "spreadsheet" entries doesn't always work as expected; particularly the first column. I often can't resize it at all, which causes cut off text. This is true in general of column format data display. The columns must be consistently resizable or information gets cut off; and you can't just scroll to see it. And some windows have a lot of data. So much that I'll sometimes stretch the window to span both of my monitors so I can see it all at once.
- Some places have drop-down box menus to select options, others appear to but nothing drops down. Some places would simply work more efficiently with drop-down box menus. (Flight plan editor speed and altitude I'm looking at you. Just the default options, and open the window to make custom changes.)
- Selecting units. We can shift-click individual units to select multiple, but we can't shift-drag to do that. For instance to select multiple groups in different areas, or use multiple selection boxes in crowded areas. Ditto with de-selecting units. (REQUEST: Function to drag a large selection region and then use a keyboard command or right-click option to de-select or only select all units of a certain posture(s). -- i.e - Drag-select a wide region, then do a 'de-select hostile units' or 'select only friendly units,' etc.)
- We can custom assign line colors for "clicked waypoint" flights, but not for "flightplan editor" flights. All the colors really need custom assignment. Sometimes colors simply don't show up against a view layer. Flight plans in particular can be quite hard to see well over certain view layers. Sensor and weapons ranges too. Even units and unit labels. I very much appreciate being able to custom-color reference points and waypoint-flightplans. Please implement that everywhere, as it's very useful but currently inconsistent.
- Window background colors can be incorrect. The Side Briefing window and Scenario Description windows for instance have a white background. Which is jarring on the eyes and in harsh contrast to the nice dark-theme background of all the other windows. It's inconsistent, and an eye strain.

Finally, explanations of various database things such a "SAM Plt/2 (NASAMS iii) -- Norway (Air Force), 2023, AMRAAM-ER, 2x + 1xMSP-500 pr plt, 3x pr Bty, 2x Bty" (An example from a different forum post by someone else asking about it as well.) Not to mention the acronyms all over the place. It would be ideal if these were all defined in the game somewhere (mouse hover option?), but at least in the manual is requisite. There's already a partial list in there, which makes the lack of the rest inconsistent. Assuming users already know what they all mean isn't really realistic. It assumes too much per-knowledge on the general user's part. And looking up acronyms online can be quite hit-or-miss. Of course, professional users almost certainly know them. At least most. But probably not all, so they'd likely find it useful too.

Anyhow ... I was playing the game, reading the mission briefing and referencing the database about the various mission aspects and trying to decide which map layer to use and I finally decided I simply had to say something about all this. Please take this as critique for improvement, and not simply as complaining.
To-wit I re-iterate: We could talk about me perhaps working on the text editing aspect, as I have done that professionally in the past. It is a huge job tho, and would benefit from several people.
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CV60
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by CV60 »

artao5 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:08 am I've seen too many typos and grammatical errors now in briefings, scenario descriptions, the database; even the manual and addenda.
...

The database. Thankfully I can use the Windows 'increase font size/zoom' feature (ctrl-mouse wheel; which also zooms the pictures, which is nice. Bonus!), but it doesn't remember the setting. Also, it only works in the lower portion of the window, not the upper ones. None of the windows that allow this feature remember the setting. It doesn't re-use windows that are open when clicking things outside the open database window. I'm sure some like this behavior, but I'd prefer to only open new windows when I tell it to. There's even a specific button to do just that. Perhaps a user-toggle option. The CW database entry for the Big Back radar is missing several statistics; and that's not the only one I've noticed between either one. (Perhaps I'll attempt to start keeping a list of faulty DB entries.)
...
I do some of the description files for the game, and (for lack of a better term) I "manage" this part of the game, so I just want to clarify what you are referring to in your post. Below is a in image of the "Big Back" radar you mention:
Image

The red arrow points to the Description of the system. This is a text file located in your database directory. It is written by volunteers, who are not compensated for any of the 8600 files that comprise this work. Incidentally, the same applies for the 25,000 images you see in the game. Drafts of these description files are posted at this link on the forum before publication into the game: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=373623 If you see grammatical errors in these, you are welcome to either mention them in that section (preferably with an edited version of how you would like it to read), or you can PM me. Any help you would like to offer would be appreciated, as these files take awhile to research and write (as an aside, it is not unusual for me to spend 8 hours researching and deconflicting inconsistent information among a variety of sources to write a single description file). We do include "unknown" for information that is important for a tactician as a placeholder in these description files. We do this in the hope that we will be able to eventually find this information. The "unknown" notation just reminds us to keep on looking for it. The important thing to note is that these description files do not change the game play. They simply provide a concise, unclassified, professional-level quality of information on the various systems using documented sources and in a semi-consistent format to ease reading and location of information. It is also important to note that with over 30,000 entries in a dynamically changing database, these description files are constantly changing and being added to and revised. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

The information in the "General Data" (the green arrow) and below is what that game actually uses. If you see errors here, please report them at this link: https://github.com/PygmalionOfCyprus/cm ... new/choose
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Gunner98
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by Gunner98 »

artao5 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:08 am I've seen too many typos and grammatical errors now in briefings, scenario descriptions,
If you are referring to the hundreds of scenarios in the scenario pack, they are produced and tested by community members on a voluntary basis. If you have an issue in one of those briefs, contact the author and point it out. If that doesn't work, well you get what you pay for and they are free.

Your best bet is to assist in testing and provide positive, constructive feedback to the authors. Testers volunteer their time and effort the same as the designers do.
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artao5
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

In the Big Back radar section with the red arrow you'll note that there's some with a value, some that say unknown, and some that ... well ... I don't know if that's missing or if it's unknown or what's up there. If they're unknown then saying so would forego any uncertainty; no wondering if it's missing.

I do not yet have the scenarios pack installed. Just what comes with the game and I bought Red Tide. There's plenty to go through there for now, no need to overwhelm myself before I really learn the game. And I would not expect such polish from such a community-made scenario pack.
I guess I didn't realize that the community holds the burden of doing most of this text work in the actual final commercial product. That's a LOT of work. I'd have thought people would be doing it as a job, receiving fair compensation. Regardless, that's no excuse to not do a final check up on everything that gets sold with the game or campaigns. There's automated tools to help with it.
You bring up "the 8600 files that comprise this work. Incidentally, the same applies for the 25,000 images you see in the game" and while that's great and all, any game studio with a comparable load -- often MORE files and data and models and images and textures and scripts -- hire's by the team to do it. Sure, that's a lot of files. But that's totally normal these days; even a bit on the low side. You've basically got a free labor gig goin on. I guess if you can get it, why not eh.
Volunteers are great! They keep games alive and add content. (If the devs allow such.) Many huge thanks to all the volunteers and modders and such. 8-)
That should be a bonus, not the base line. Commercial work should have polished commercial quality regardless where the material originated. Especially at this price level. <shrug> I find it rather surprising how sloppy it is, considering
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by CV60 »

artao5 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:19 pm In the Big Back radar section with the red arrow you'll note that there's some with a value, some that say unknown, and some that ... well ... I don't know if that's missing or if it's unknown or what's up there. If they're unknown then saying so would forego any uncertainty; no wondering if it's missing.

I do not yet have the scenarios pack installed. Just what comes with the game and I bought Red Tide. There's plenty to go through there for now, no need to overwhelm myself before I really learn the game. And I would not expect such polish from such a community-made scenario pack.
I guess I didn't realize that the community holds the burden of doing most of this text work in the actual final commercial product. That's a LOT of work. I'd have thought people would be doing it as a job, receiving fair compensation. Regardless, that's no excuse to not do a final check up on everything that gets sold with the game or campaigns. There's automated tools to help with it.
You bring up "the 8600 files that comprise this work. Incidentally, the same applies for the 25,000 images you see in the game" and while that's great and all, any game studio with a comparable load -- often MORE files and data and models and images and textures and scripts -- hire's by the team to do it. Sure, that's a lot of files. But that's totally normal these days; even a bit on the low side. You've basically got a free labor gig goin on. I guess if you can get it, why not eh.
Volunteers are great! They keep games alive and add content. (If the devs allow such.) Many huge thanks to all the volunteers and modders and such. 8-)
That should be a bonus, not the base line. Commercial work should have polished commercial quality regardless where the material originated. Especially at this price level. <shrug> I find it rather surprising how sloppy it is, considering
We do it because we believe in the product. Many of us are ex-military, and see the value of CMO as a training and education tool, and are happy to help bring it to the military and civilian markets. Frankly, the developers couldn't afford our services, and the market wouldn't bear the price that the developers would have to charge if they paid us. Of note, our images and descriptions are free. It's not that it is included in the price of the game. It is in fact a free download you can get whether you own the game or not. See here: https://command.matrixgames.com/?page_id=1876

We would really like to have you on the team if you believe you could help make our work even better. As I said, if you find any files that you would like to have corrected, just PM me your draft version of the description file, and I'll include it in the next update. We have an image package update coming probably later this week, and a description package update by the end of April. You can find your description files in .txt form in your "Command Operations/DB/Descriptions/CWDB" or "Command Operations/DB/Descriptions/DB3000" folder. Simply take the file that you want edited, make a copy, make the edits and DM it to me, along with a short explanation of what changes you made. Even better, I can always use help in researching and writing them. In any case, any help you can provide will be appreciated, and you will be credited in the "credits" file in the database folder.
Last edited by CV60 on Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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lumiere
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by lumiere »

To be honest, I'm just wondering why he is recently so zealous to show his obvious hostility against CMO and its devs/community here and there. Seeing another Herman Hum (pity they removed one of the funniest articles BTW).
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by CV60 »

lumiere wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:04 pm To be honest, I'm just wondering why he is recently so zealous to show his obvious hostility against CMO and its devs/community here and there. Seeing another Herman Hum (pity they removed one of the funniest articles BTW).
Artao appears to be new the CMO world. Because of this, he should be given the benefit of the doubt. And his critique of the description files is legitimate: there are spelling/grammar errors in some of them, many which I personally made. ;-( With that said, I'm always up for volunteers to help out. I only have 22,000 more description files to write..... :-)
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by thewood1 »

Seems to be a pretty simple solution. Take him up on the offer to work with the rest of the unwashed masses on getting descriptions cleaned up. Its a thankless job, as this thread points out.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by kevinkins »

"You've basically got a free labor gig goin on. I guess if you can get it, why not eh."

Computer war games (and even board games to some degree) have been relying on free labor for a generation or more.
The OP must be new to this hobby. There would not be a hobby without all the volunteers and the "mistakes" they make.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

CV60 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:52 pm We would really like to have you on the team if you believe you could help make our work even better. As I said, if you find any files that you would like to have corrected, just PM me your draft version of the description file, and I'll include it in the next update. We have an image package update coming probably later this week, and a description package update by the end of April. You can find your description files in .txt form in your "Command Operations/DB/Descriptions/CWDB" or "Command Operations/DB/Descriptions/DB3000" folder. Simply take the file that you want edited, make a copy, make the edits and DM it to me, along with a short explanation of what changes you made. Even better, I can always use help in researching and writing them. In any case, any help you can provide will be appreciated, and you will be credited in the "credits" file in the database folder.
I'll check out that descriptions file. I imagine it's an entirely text document. That would be ideal for editing, rather than doing it as I play the game and as I find them.
So sure. I'll work on that and send you the file occasionally as I work on it.
If it were possible to get the entire thing in open document format (.odf .. but MS .doc or .docx might work too) I could work on it in LibreOffice, which could then automatically track any changes I make. Which would be much simpler and less susceptible to error.

I'd be of no help in research of this sort. Possible of help in writing it, so I'll look at making more "editorial" edits as well as spelling and grammar.

The UI inconsistencies would be on the devs of course. The non-resizable windows and internal-window-regions and the windows that don't respect the font-size increasing Windows function. (I dunno if Linux and Mac have that too)
Last edited by artao5 on Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

lumiere wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:04 pm To be honest, I'm just wondering why he is recently so zealous to show his obvious hostility against CMO and its devs/community here and there. Seeing another Herman Hum (pity they removed one of the funniest articles BTW).
If you're taking it as "hostile" that's on you, not me.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

kevinkins wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:01 am "You've basically got a free labor gig goin on. I guess if you can get it, why not eh."

Computer war games (and even board games to some degree) have been relying on free labor for a generation or more.
The OP must be new to this hobby. There would not be a hobby without all the volunteers and the "mistakes" they make.
I've been playing such games since the 90s.
Are you trying to say that the likes of SSI, Sonalysts, MicroProse, and others ... Have been using free volunteer labor this whole time?
LOLno.
Perhaps the stuff on Matrix games. I'd believe that much. Very expensive website overall. Especially if so much of the work is done by volunteers. Why, then, do many Matrix distributed games cost 60 bucks or more if they're not doing the research and writing themselves? It's not the game engines. Without the research and writing the game engines are useless.
If a company is making money off a product, so should the people making the product in the first place. All of them as a standard baseline. If people SEEK to volunteer their services and labor, that's their choice.

And yeah. I'll see what I can do to help out with this community descriptions text file that I just learned about.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by artao5 »

To be clear: The descriptions files I have DLed and will work on proofing are NOT the ones that come with CMO?
Which is to say, they are community addons, like the images one. Yes? (Which I did immediately install within days of getting CMO)
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by kevinkins »

artao5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:03 pm
kevinkins wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:01 am "You've basically got a free labor gig goin on. I guess if you can get it, why not eh."

Computer war games (and even board games to some degree) have been relying on free labor for a generation or more.
The OP must be new to this hobby. There would not be a hobby without all the volunteers and the "mistakes" they make.
I've been playing such games since the 90s.
Are you trying to say that the likes of SSI, Sonalysts, MicroProse, and others ... Have been using free volunteer labor this whole time?
LOLno.
Perhaps the stuff on Matrix games. I'd believe that much. Very expensive website overall. Especially if so much of the work is done by volunteers. Why, then, do many Matrix distributed games cost 60 bucks or more if they're not doing the research and writing themselves? It's not the game engines. Without the research and writing the game engines are useless.
If a company is making money off a product, so should the people making the product in the first place. All of them as a standard baseline. If people SEEK to volunteer their services and labor, that's their choice.

And yeah. I'll see what I can do to help out with this community descriptions text file that I just learned about.
If they have an open design that provides and editor the answer is yes. Even if they don't, you would be naïve not to understand the role of volunteers in war gaming. Play testers, even for products without editors, don't get paid. They get a free copy of the released game and their name in the manual. That's it . This has been the culture forever. Given the low volume of sales compared to the programmer's effort, 60 bucks is nothing. Unless you are a grad student. But today, even they can afford it. Without volunteers, you would really have crap on the shelf and something major to complain about. Most of the programmers don't even have a clue on how to design a good scenario let alone test it. They are hackers, not historians.
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Re: Typos, Grammatical Errors, and UI Inconsistencies

Post by CV60 »

artao5 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 am To be clear: The descriptions files I have DLed and will work on proofing are NOT the ones that come with CMO?
Which is to say, they are community addons, like the images one. Yes? (Which I did immediately install within days of getting CMO)
artao5-I just saw your DM to me, and I replied via DM with some information on how the team works. Thank you for volunteering to help out. We certainly need people like you, especially with editing and I look forward to working with you.

To answer your question above, all of the images and description files in the game are provided by this team. The actual game doesn't, strictly speaking, come with them. However the game allows for them to be "modded" into the game, and as a service to the community the developers have a method of linking to our files to allow for easy upload. But it is our team, and not the developers who are entirely responsible for the image and description packages, and we do so without any compensation (not even a free copy of CMO or any of the DLCs). We also aren't supervised at all by the developers. With that said, myself and kgambit "manage" the team that puts the images and description files that are used by the vast bulk of the CMO community.
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