ORIGINAL: rmonical
Most notebly non of those losts at sea is counted in ur figurs.
All of the convoy losses to Africa were counted. Re: the post Greece convoys - Jentz says tanks were lost. Other sources disagree.
http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 24&t=10434 points out the Halder dairies state the initial report of tanks losses was incorrect because the tanks were transported on the first trip. This thread has a scan of the vehicles in the sinkings. So as of May 2009, the loss of 2.Pz tanks in the sinking of Marburg and Kybfels should be relegated to urban legend status.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=117843
Well, then some of their tanks disappeared some where else. As Pz Reg 3 is issues 79 Pz3 in june-july 1941 has 105 at sep 1941. A difference of 26. There could be other issues of tanks i havent seen any evidence on isnt listed in my sources. They had 71 pz III at the start of Marieta. 8 writes offs for 63 left. So there is at leased 37 lost some where..... Urban myth or not.
Pages 154-157 in Jentz volume 1. As those are issues during game production times those would have to be deducted. Even if losses are in may.
For Pz reg 31/(5th Pz Div) on june 21 it has 17 Pz III. Starts with 51 so 34 in difference. 10 in WOs, 14 going to Crete neding with 10 unaccounted for. Rumors in Jenzt that soem is lost going to Crete.
Any how so as 31 Pz Reg has 17 Pz3s on june 21 and 105 in sep it has to have been issued 85 during game time. From Jentz too.
ORIGINAL: rmonical
In any event, those losses in May would have been part of Niehortstors 6.22.41 accounting of tanks (which is based on Jentz).
As a word of caution. There is a lack/delay in the reporting of tank losses so tho lost in one month u cant take the figurs 100% litterally. There is an obvious delay in reporting. A good example is June-Aug 1944 vs the sep-oct 1944.
In the month of june through aug 1944 u have Normandy france debacle and Soviet operation North and South of the Pripesk marshes. This is about the heavies fighting involving more or less 80 90% of the german pz truppen. What happens in Sep through Oct 1944, Not much involving the Pz truppen. That said the pz bde in the West do take some sigificant PzVs casulties, but far from these kinda figurs.
Losses Again according to Jentz from OKW figurs are for panthers:
June 138
July 373
Aug 290
Combined 801
Sep 692
Oct 294
Combined 986.
So in sep oct u would have taken 20 ish % more losses than during the summer battles of 1944 on both fronts. Its not a question of not being unlikely its impossible. Its obvious alot of those losses in Sep and possibly Oct numers has to have been taken earlier. So in june through aug logically there is a delay in reporting that gets into teh Sep Oct figurs. Again According to Jenzt the combined str of PzVs on the West is 150 on sep 15 1944. Again Jentz. They hardly have 692 panthers in sep 1944 so well u cant lose them there.
How many Pz III were allocated to the Panzer schools? I was not able to find that information. My guess is the number is very small to zero in June 41. In addition to the PzIII and PzIV not in units, Niehorstor shows 658 PzI and 264 PzII not in units - these are probably the school tanks.
This is all speculation. I have used the best facts I can find on-line to count panzers. If there are better facts available, please share and I will incorporate them into the count. The 6.22.41 panzer count is from Niehorstor. He shows a lot of tanks not in units (presumably depots). This makes sense as they had just finished a campaign. My point is these tanks in depot on 6.1.41 do not make it back to the front with the current scenario design. I suggest one solution is to slightly increase production to allow these tanks to trickle back to the front.
Well i dont have precise figurs either but as u say u have 234 not with units. At end of war its 534 left in inventory(there could be some that is for example bef pz3 with units so i wont say 534 at the end of the war is 100% accurate but its presumably pretty close.) So there is a constand of tank not in units.
Any how if we take the 234 Pz 3 not with units, this number varies through out the war but a said ends at some where near double that number ar end of the war. Add 16 in 5./ Pz Reg 31 that ends up and spends the war on Crete there for not listen in ur above numbers.
Add the 10 unaccounted for in 31 pz reg, add 14 lost on way to Africa. Thats 276 in all. So IMO so close to the 300 as u possibly can get at leased IMO we down to numbers that is insignificant. I cant see production of Pz3 being much more precise.
Then there are questions like are the sep 1941 reorg of 21st Pz into a full pz div not taken out of prodcution per say. One can argue if they are included in the production going to the "West" or not but there is another 60'ish that should or shouldnt be deducted from production.
From Jentz too.
Its clear if u add 300 u will end up with more PzIIIs in units than historic so i certainly would leave it as is. Yes u prolly never can find 100% accurate figurs and some varies though out the war. How many that arent in units/depots. So u will have to pick soem arbitrary number but its clear there they a constand of some sort.
Kind regards,
Rasmus
