Man in Motion Rules and Gameplay Issues

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Trust me, as a former High School TE coach, Players could line-up at the ends of the line right next to The OTs, yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE", then step back off the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE" then get back on the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE." Never receive a single flag, but a heck of a lot teasing and immediate laughs directed at him, and forever; much the same way Marauders would if he stated any where around real coaches.

If that "tight end" of yours steps back off the line of scrimmage and yells "I am a tight end" and stays there without another player becoming an end, the officials will flag your team for illegal formation no matter how many times you protest that you had a "tight end" in the game.

[font="Courier New"]I was posting in only reference to the TE's actions; because oh my goodness when we where disagreeing TE being converted to another figinn position!!! Since, you want to muddle the BUll Shit some more, why did you not mention that in one my first posts I already posted that?

RE: man in motion bug??? - 11/28/2006 1:43:49 PM


GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam
Matrix Veteran





Posts: 154
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: online Marauders,

quote:

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football.

Are you communicate to us that TEs are not allowed to go to motion? Whether they come to a stop or just keep going until snap? If so you have not watched enough FB, happens a lot and every game. Of course, depending upon if the TEs are on The LOS, then they do have to have another Receiver cover up that side of the LOS.
quote:

Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped.

In real FB this is also wrong.

quote:

This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap.

This is different then you posted in the other sentences, if you apply quote:

forward motioninto the other sentences then they would be right. I think you made a typing or communicating mistake here, but never know until posted so.


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Stop your failed attempt at spin doctoring!! The BS is getting to heavy to shovel!

I guess it is just too much for you to admite you are wrong.[/font]

[qoute]Please do not confuse people here with fan definitions rather than coaching definitions. Creating playbooks requires knowledge of the latter.

- Marauders

[font="Courier New"]I doubt you have ever been in a room of an USAn Playbook, let alone single play with shifting or motion going on.

Actually what hack153 has now made perfectly clear and for me to get little more technical about the whole thing what he is posting about is shifting not going in motion, since as we way already established another receiver has to replace the TE on that side of the OC. You cannot have two-players go into motion, at the same time. [/font] http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/definitions

27. Shift: The movement of two or more offensive players at the same time before the snap.

At the same time, the split end would have to step back, and the flanker would have to step up. This all has to be done prior to having all players in the set for a full second prior to the snap.

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/positionofplayers

[font="Courier New"]Not true, if it was true no audibles would be possible. [/font]

8. After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.

[font="Courier New"]Does not read that no more shifting or motion can happen. Only when the word 'Set' is said by the QB, there is no more of any movement allowed.[/font]

This is a basic fundamental of football. Why do you need URL's? I thought you said you were a coach at one time.

- Marauders

[font="Courier New"]I did not make a mistake when I posted, put the URLs out there now.[/font]

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: nmleague

GW you have problems!   Just becuase a player is normally a TE doesnt mean he is always a TE, once he steps off the LOS or splits away from the OT he is no longer in a TE position.  Just as a HB that lines up off the LOS 10 yards outside the TE is no longer a HB, but a FL, or an OG that comes into the game and lines up in the backfield is no long a G but is now a RB.  Positions are dictated by where a player lines up on the field, not by what position he normally may be considered.  Many teams would put a player that is normally a TE in the backfield and then put him in motion or shift him to one side or another, he normally may be a TE , but in this situation he is a RB(or someteams call them an H back) , or if he moves outside he becomes a FL, or if he moves to the LOS outside the OT and if the SE on that side backs up off the LOS then he is again a TE.  Officials dont care one bit about what a player calls himself, a TE that stands up and backs off the LOS doesnt have to say anything to an official, if someone else does not move up to the LOS then the offense has to many men in the backfield, if the TE was the last man on that side on the LOS the OT would now become eligible, but not all levels of football require that you inform the officials that a player is now an eligible receiver. Teams can create positions names like H back etc. as they want there is no position requirements, as long as rules are being followed you can call a player anythign you want.

[font="Courier New"]Try reading the my posts, again, half of what you post to me is not what I posted. By the way it is my point that yes there are definitions some where about what the players are; but not in the On-Line rules. When we discover there are already set definitions (by The NFL, not some Media outlet), then there is no arguement either way, no matter what we are told by the media (books, Coaches and etc). The media's definitions are unofficial definitions, that do not affect the rules*. What are players designated positions, before games, is the players' positions; no matter what he does. That is why a OT can be off the LOS for certain formations, thus plays, and still must stay with a certain distance from LOS, unlike all other non-OL positions that can move as far as they want. Also, it unlike the other OL positions that cannot move back at all. Yet, is he any thing else except a OT, to the NFL? Let me help you with this NO. That is why there can be a 3rd QB that can only be activited when the starter and backup is injured.

Also, something you guys miss, by the 7-man rule and your line of thinking that players positions change, an uncovered OT is now a receive that is ineligiable. That is wrong he is an Ineligiable Receiver. The difference is slight but important, a OT can never ever become a receiver, he is a OT made to be classified as a Ineligiable Receiver, by a bad formation[/font]

[font="Courier New"]*-That is where we have the arguement; thus where it will end.[/font]

[Shaggyra]

GW,  man you are flat out wrong.
 
Players must come to a complete stop (all at the same time) for at least 1 second.  A "man in motion" can occur after that. 
 
BTW, the quarterback does not have to say 'set' or anything at all.  No player has to say anything.  (except the player with an ineligible number reporting to the offical that he is playing in an eligible position)
 
 
Also, I do not believe you were ever a coach at any level.  You do not know some of the most basic rules of the game.   Please give it up.

[Shaggyra]

[font="courier new"]Blah, blah, blah....[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]a OT can never ever become a receiver, he is a OT made to be classified as a Ineligiable Receiver, by a bad formation[/font]
 
An OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play.  An OT can also be an OG, C, DE, DT, NT, LB, CB, S, etc, etc.........
 
 
 
 
 

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Shaggyra[/font][font="courier new"] is right and I am wrong, there is a way. Sorry, my mistake on that[/font]

An OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play.  An OT can also be an OG, C, DE, DT, NT, LB, CB, S, etc, etc.........

 

The difference is slight but important, a OT can never ever become a receiver, he is a OT made to be classified as a Ineligiable Receiver, by a bad formation.

[font="Courier New"]An OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play, means he is not in an bad formation; thus what I posted needs no corrections and was right, unless what follows is answered yes. The reason above I admite it is wrong is because I was not thinking of[/font]

OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play.

[font="Courier New"]when I posted it.

See why I block people and should never address what they post in these threads. He never would have took the time to read the post to understand that it was covered what he ended up posting. Not even to mention none of these members have once taken the time to post they were sorry, when they were wrong, involving me. Sure, maybe there a slight chance they will now, that I have posted it a few times, but doubt it. How many times, how freely and honestly have I done it now, in this thread, let alone on MF forum.[/font]

[font="courier new"]Now, I think about it I wonder if a OLman lined up in a RB position, if he can also catch a ball? Because, I have never heard those OLmen report to an official before the play, to make him a eligiable receivers. I am going to ask the NFL.[/font]
[font="courier new"]Leads to beleive they are not.[/font]

[Shaggyra]

ORIGINAL: GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam

[font="courier new"]Shaggyra[/font][font="courier new"] is right and I am wrong, there is a way. Sorry, my mistake on that[/font]

I don't know what to say!!!!!!!

An OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play.  An OT can also be an OG, C, DE, DT, NT, LB, CB, S, etc, etc.........

 
[font="courier new"]Now, I think about it I wonder if a OLman lined up in a RB position, if he can also catch a ball? Because, I have never heard those OLmen report to an official before the play, to make him a eligiable receivers. I am going to ask the NFL.[/font]
[font="courier new"]Leads to beleive they are not.[/font]

Only in eligible positions, i.e. backfield or ends

I can't remember for sure, but don't the Patriots use an OL in the backfield sometime this year? Also, who could ever forget the 'Fridge for my beloved Chicago Bears.[:'(]

[nmleague]

IN the NFL an offense is required to have 7 men on the LOS and 4 men in the backfield.  The two end men on the LOS are eligable recievers by rule, it use to be that teams would run a tackle eligible play were the man on the end of the line would set back off the LOS making the OT elibile (the FL on the opposite would step up to the LOS so that they still had the required 7 players on the LOS), this did mean that one of the usual receivers (TE on the other side) was now ineligable.  Cant remember when they did it, but at some point a number of years ago the NFL started to require the offense to let them know if the OT was going to be eligable, taking away the trickiness.  Im pretty sure that HS and maybe colleges still allow the shift and dont require the offense to notify the officials of the change.  All the men in the backfield are eligilbe recievers, if you put an OG or 2 OG in the backfield they are eligible because they are in the backfield, in the pros and college you will notice these players would slip a paritial jersy with a eligible receiver number on it to conform to the rules.  But yes any player lined up in the backfield or I should say behind the LOS can catch a pass, includig the QB.

[Shaggyra]

From NFL.COM


Digest of Rules

Position of Players at Snap
1. Offensive team must have at least seven players on line.

2. Offensive players, not on line, must be at least one yard back at snap.

(Exception: player who takes snap.)

3. No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.

4. No player of either team may enter neutral zone before snap.

5. No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started. No player of the defensive team within one yard of the line of scrimmage may make an abrupt movement in an attempt to cause the offense to false start.

6. If a player changes his eligibility, the Referee must alert the defensive captain after player has reported to him.

7. All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).

8. After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.

9. Quarterbacks can be called for a false start penalty (five yards) if their actions are judged to be an obvious attempt to draw an opponent offside.

10. Offensive linemen are permitted to interlock legs.

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: nmleague

IN the NFL an offense is required to have 7 men on the LOS and 4 men in the backfield.  The two end men on the LOS are eligable recievers by rule, it use to be that teams would run a tackle eligible play were the man on the end of the line would set back off the LOS making the OT elibile (the FL on the opposite would step up to the LOS so that they still had the required 7 players on the LOS), this did mean that one of the usual receivers (TE on the other side) was now ineligable.  Cant remember when they did it, but at some point a number of years ago the NFL started to require the offense to let them know if the OT was going to be eligable, taking away the trickiness.  Im pretty sure that HS and maybe colleges still allow the shift and dont require the offense to notify the officials of the change.  All the men in the backfield are eligilbe recievers, if you put an OG or 2 OG in the backfield they are eligible because they are in the backfield, in the pros and college you will notice these players would slip a paritial jersy with a eligible receiver number on it to conform to the rules.  But yes any player lined up in the backfield or I should say behind the LOS can catch a pass, includig the QB.

[font="Courier New"]It would be nice if you already knew that I already posted about those basic LOS rules (in this very thread, let alone on MF a few times) and Backfield rules I already knew. It gets very annoying (and some would say insulting) when you guys repeat what I have already posted a knowledge of.

I do not disagree with most of that was possible*, and never have; however, I posting about now.

It depends upon the state rules, each state might be able to have their own rules. I am not even 51% sure, either way, if Florida allows the much room. Never saw it.

I know it is illegal and punished very hard if CFB and NFL players to change jerseys. Maybe that was different in early 80s, I am 75% sure it was allowed back then. I once thought it was illegal for CFb Div. 1A players to wear the same #, like it is in The NFL; however, after The Nebraska's last regular season game, I know it is not. Or maybe, it is not for reshirted players? But, are they not even allowed to wear a jersey?

I still not going to believe it until I either see it on TV or read a letter from The NFL stating it is. Because I have looked, The NFL On-Line rule book does not state it. It is only way for anyone to truly know.

Yeah, I already know about all other positions can catching passes.

*-unlike you, I am not even 51% sure, that was true.

Loopholes, in play rules, will always be discovered, by The NFL coaches.[/font]

[hack153]

Where does it say any thing about promoting MF as a game that should be bought? Where does it say, one must buy the game, to critique it?

So now, you are going to be like the rest hyprocrities, that think they are not posting off topic simply because they post defending/promoting MF in a threading topic has nothing to do about purchasing or defending/promoting MF? There is no maybe I am doing it, you either posting on topic or off topic of your own thread.

I guess it is good to know now, where you stand.

personal attacks on me won't get you anywhere?

in order to critique anything, one must try it. if i asked someone what pizza tastes like, and they have never had it before, how in the hell can they tell me what it tastes like?!?

all people are asking of you is to TRY the game. it's like voting, if you don't vote, your opinion really doesn't count.

also, i think when members are speaking out against off topic they mean non-mf/football material.

as for where i stand, i am here to effectively communicate with people who experience the game, to receive help from members and to give help when needed.

[:D]***PROMOTION: BUY MAXIMUM FOOTBALL. It's fun, it's flexible, and it will entertain you for hours!***[:D]

[Shaggyra]

ORIGINAL: GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam



I still not going to believe it until I either see it on TV or read a E-Mail from The NFL stating it is. Because, I have looked The NFL On-Line rule book does not state it. It is only way for anyone to truly know.

Yeah, I already know about all other positions catching passes.

*-unlike you, I am not even 51% sure, that was true.[/b][/font][/color]

I posted rules above you knucklehead!

[Marauders]

At the same time, the split end would have to step back, and the flanker would have to step up. This all has to be done prior to having all players in the set for a full second prior to the snap.

Not true, if it was true no audibles would be possible.

How is that? If multiple players are moving at the same time, they must all come to a set for one second before a player can go in motion. What does that have to do with audibles?

Yes, this is a shift. I have already stated that two players may not be in motion at the same time, meaning at the snap. I am well aware of the terminology.

After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.

Does not read that no more shifting or motion can happen. Only when the word 'Set' is said by the QB, there is no more of any movement allowed.

A team may shift, and shift again, and even shift, set and send a man in motion. In all of those circumstances, the players must come to a complete stop for one second prior to either the snap or sending the man in motion.

Blame the Fighting Irish, because it was their Split T shift to Single Wing that caused the rule change from unlimited motion under American rules.

The difference is slight but important, a OT can never ever become a receiver, he is a OT made to be classified as a Ineligiable Receiver, by a bad formation.

An OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play, means he is not in an bad formation; thus what I posted needs no corrections and was right, unless what follows is answered yes.

Let's get this straight, a player that normally plays tackle can report to the official to be eligible to catch the ball. He does so because his number makes him ineligible.

If a player who normally plays OT reports and then lines up outside of another tackle, he is then a tight end. If he lines up in the slot, he is a slot back; if he lines up in the backfield behind the tackle box, he is a running back. In all cases, he is no longer a tackle. Tackle eligible means his number is cleared for the play.

Now, I think about it I wonder if a OLman lined up in a RB position, if he can also catch a ball? Because, I have never heard those OLmen report to an official before the play, to make him a eligiable receivers.

Yes, he must report, and he can catch the ball. Where he lines up is moot as long as he is no longer lined up as one of the five linemen.

- Marauders

[dreamtheatervt]

To get back to the original topic of the thread, even when I put the motion 10 yards backward then back forward in a V shape, the TE still ran through the OL.  It's a minor issue that doesn't effect gameplay, it's just asthetics.  You did nothing wrong hack, its the game.

[hack153]

Dream, thanks for the millionth time...

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]hack153[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]           I own the first-version, will not waste my money again. I do not need to waste money on a game, that admites it does not have trading and other features I demand from the FB Games. I am not the company that leaves it at either purchase the game or you cannot try it, while others use Demos.[/font]

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play; is different in a important way, I thought about coming home, from an uncovered OT. OT can be a reciever if he reports to an official before the play, is when a another OT  lines up next to the OT *or I believe possible, never seen) Another player(s) takes the OT (or also the same side OG) place and allowing OT (or also the same side OG) to move to other side of the line and the other side of the lines' OT)*; not when any OT is simply left uncovered. *Then the OT (or also the same side OG) declares to the referee (either before the running of the playor after shifting) that he is a eligiable receiver(s) and catch a pass. Imagine, if The OT is an CFB's ex-TE (like Buffalo Bill's new LOT), then try to stop it.*[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]*-Just theory, since Univ. of Miami and now I have seen a NFL Franchise, move OLmen to one side of the OC and other Players replace them at their old OL positions (on the other side of the OC).[/font]

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Marauders[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] [font="courier new"]
[blockquote]
[blockquote]

quote:


[blockquote]
quote:

At the same time, the split end would have to step back, and the flanker would have to step up. This all has to be done prior to having all players in the set for a full second prior to the snap.
 [/blockquote]Not true, if it was true no audibles would be possible. [/blockquote]
How is that? If multiple players are moving at the same time, they must all come to a set for one second before a player can go in motion. What does that have to do with audibles?

Yes, this is a shift. I have already stated that two players may not be in motion at the same time, meaning at the snap. I am well aware of the terminology.

 
Below is your first-mention of stopping for a sec. in between shifting or motioning, big surprise when I read it. That was why, I posted that. I can swear I read one of your posts where you did post two=players moving at once.

quote:

After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.[/blockquote]


Does not read that no more shifting or motion can happen. Only when the word 'Set' is said by the QB, there is no more of any movement allowed.

A team may shift, and shift again, and even shift, set and send a man in motion. In all of those circumstances, the players must come to a complete stop for one second prior to either the snap or sending the man in motion.

Blame the Fighting Irish, because it was thier Split T shift to Single Wing that caused the rule change from unlimited motion under American rules.[/quote]
 
You just repeated what I posted, but in your own words.[8|] Except, must also stop for at least one-sec before shifting, again. What, I am not indicating it is bad or good. It is just a rule USAn FootBall has to go by.

Since, we are just going back and forth on this, I am ignoring everything I read on this from you, until I get proof from The NFL.[/font]

[Marauders]

Two players can move at one time; that is a shift, but they must come to a complete stop at least for one second prior to the snap or any motion on the snap.
 
I tired of restating the rule in twenty different ways to make it clear.  I am sure everyone else reading this thread understands the rule.
 
 

[Marauders]

To get back to the original topic of the thread, even when I put the motion 10 yards backward then back forward in a V shape, the TE still ran through the TE.  It's a minor issue that doesn't effect gameplay, it's just asthetics.  You did nothing wrong hack, its the game.

 
The game does not support line shifts of that sort.  One can move the players when creating the play, but they will not shift around.  One can also flip the play.
 

[Jim1010]

Hi all,
 
I have noticed the Tight End running through the Offensive Linemen occasionally, but not all the time. And as you said it does not effect the game, just looks funny so you're not the only one who has seen it. I am using the plays that have come with the game, I have not made my own (lack of time).
 
 
GW,
 
I do not post here much, I barely have time to play the game as much as I would like (Which I have found to be very fun).
I noticed you said in an above post that you own the First version of the game. If you already paid for the game once then you can download all the patches and you will have the latest release of the game. It does not cost extra to download the latest Beta patch. I can tell you that I have downloaded all the patch releases and the game is really a good Football Simulation.
 
So If you did already buy the game when it first came out then get the patches and play with the game some.
 
Ok I will be quiet now.