Pilot Training : Defensive skill

[ElvisDaKing]

Hi

To train my new fighter recruits, i put them in squadron CAP 30 / Train 70 , range 0, so my pilots increase their Air Skill as well as their Experience...
But question is, how do you increase their Defensive skill ?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I normally train in escort at regular altitude to gain "air"
then switch to sweep at low altitude to get "defense"

[GetAssista]

Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing

Hi

To train my new fighter recruits, i put them in squadron CAP 30 / Train 70 , range 0, so my pilots increase their Air Skill as well as their Experience...
But question is, how do you increase their Defensive skill ?

For me it is the most critical skill. All my pilots are trained with Defensive skill > 70 before leaving training unit. Standard settings for fighter training squadron is like this: Training sweep 100%, range 0, altitude 10000 until they get to def = 70. As result usually my green pilot joining combat unit looks like: exp(50-58) air(50-55) def(70-71). This methods work fine for me and my opponent are not complaining about quality of my pilots.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def

I prefer ground attack at 100 feet - trains Strafe and Defense.

[Barb]

I usually train for month at sweep 100% at 10000ft, range 0, (get A2A skill to about 60-70) then switch for altitude 100ft for another month (get strafe skill to about 60-70) - defensive skill would be too raised to about 60-70.

For allies I also tend to throw another month of Ground bombing - a lot of fighters can actually carry bombs and be quite helpful in backwater for suppression.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def

I prefer ground attack at 100 feet - trains Strafe and Defense.

Not statistically proven - and I am no veteran expert compared to the above - but for fighter back base hubs :

Train "General" (often Rest mode) Alt = 15000 Range 1 for about a month

Train "Escort" Alt = 15000 Range 1 for about a month

Train Ground Attack Alt = 100 Range 1 for about a month.

--

I think Train general is often under recommended.

When drawing from reserve I rarely hand pick select pilots. Having at least a 'base grade' is very helpful.

In 90 ++ days I seem to "generally end up" with a Fighter pilot screen practically all orange and green.

Overall Experience ~ 50+ Overall Air ~ 60 + Overall Defense ~ 60+ and nothing less than 25 in most every category (albeit Nav can be lower).

Now of course there is always a few remedial learners at the bottom of the list...but dump the "release top 10 - release top 10" into general reserve and start over.

[Lokasenna]

I never train General, because I don't want the skill gain to be randomized. I want them focused on particular skills. I also never train on Range 1 - why would you do this? It will just result in an increase in Ops losses due to fatigue.

And the results I get show it. I put pilots into reserve at 60+ Exp, Air 70+, and Defense 60+ as well as Strafe 60+. Typically what happens is I train until most of the pilots in the group are 70+ Air skill, which will result in a low-50s Exp level and Defense in the upper 40s/mid 50s. Then I switch to Strafe, and by the time Strafe is in the 60s their Exp will be in the low 60s and Defense will be at least in the low 60s.

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical. Train on Ground attack at 100 ft and you will see Strafe and Defense skills increasing.


Bonus to this method: you can put Strafe-trained fighter pilots in attack bombers with all the nose guns (as Strafe is the skill they use, not LowG or LowN bombing skills), and Air skill does seem to affect how well the bombers perform against enemy fighters. A month ago or thereabouts I had a bomber pilot get "Ace in a Day" status.

[szmike]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical.

+1

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I never train General, because I don't want the skill gain to be randomized. I want them focused on particular skills. I also never train on Range 1 - why would you do this? It will just result in an increase in Ops losses due to fatigue.

And the results I get show it. I put pilots into reserve at 60+ Exp, Air 70+, and Defense 60+ as well as Strafe 60+. Typically what happens is I train until most of the pilots in the group are 70+ Air skill, which will result in a low-50s Exp level and Defense in the upper 40s/mid 50s. Then I switch to Strafe, and by the time Strafe is in the 60s their Exp will be in the low 60s and Defense will be at least in the low 60s.

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical. Train on Ground attack at 100 ft and you will see Strafe and Defense skills increasing.


Bonus to this method: you can put Strafe-trained fighter pilots in attack bombers with all the nose guns (as Strafe is the skill they use, not LowG or LowN bombing skills), and Air skill does seem to affect how well the bombers perform against enemy fighters. A month ago or thereabouts I had a bomber pilot get "Ace in a Day" status.

Learnings... and thanks... [8D]

Yes empirical not statistical.

I was not disagreeing with you on Ground attack at all.. merely I introduced ground attack at the end in a "home made" cycle.

Perhaps my "home made cycle" is merely more convenient for me to manage than truly optimized.

I have not progressed in the game where I have been caught out by poor planning ..i.e. PBem play or other.

However despite the "randomization" of all those other skills - do you never find need "latter on" for other skills ??

I think I have switched fighter types into various roles from time to time (and then back again) at least against AI opponent I thought it stood me well.... though perhaps I am wrong..

Example include the P39 in Naval Attack moving forward with a Coral Sea campaign...

[Lokasenna]

It's worth noting that when you pull a pilot from replacements, the pilots skills are generated based on the unit type. Later in the war, Allied pilot average skills (and XP) for replacement pools is at least around 40. If you're out of trained pilots for a unit type, it's better to just pull in from replacements than your cross-trained pilots as you mentioned above.

Example: Fighter pilot that had randomized general training for a while and has NavB/NavT skills in the 30s. Better to pull from Replacements(40), as the NavB/NavT will be about 40 in that case.

[Big B]

This is a good question and deserves some thought.
Like some previous posters have mentioned Defense is all-important.

What I have found works best for fighter units is the following (but this takes a bit longer)-
1) Fill the training unit to 100% of allowed pilots (ratio is now more pilots than aircraft, which slows it down a bit - but will pay dividends if the unit is sent intact to combat).
2) Have the Unit train ESCORT 100% under 10,000 feet, and ZERO Range (reason is NOT to Waste air-frames, greater altitude has no effect anyway). ESCORT seems to raise Defensive Skill, Experience, and Air Skill Simultaneously faster than any other, until the unit hits Experience 55 or greater.
3) When the unit hits about 55 Exp, check it EVERY DAY - to see to what experience is being gained. Once gain is down to one or two pilots per day - switch to 100% CAP... Again check daily to watch until experience gain AGAIN drops to one or two pilots per day.
4) At that point, Switch back and forth between CAP and TRAINING ESCORT until, after a day or two - no one is gaining experience.
5) By this time, Air Skill should be around 70, Experience above 60, Defense above 60 - now is the time to introduce a week or two at a time of Strafing to gain more Defense (ground/naval attack at altitude 100 feet), and to a lesser degree Experience.
6) At this point your Air Skill should be a solid 70+, Experience 64+, Defense over 60. Now it's a matter of giving the unit new training missions every couple days to boost the three key Experience Ratings - Exp\Air|Def, and intermix with CAP every few days (Flying CAP increases Air Skill and Experience fast).

Using this method takes a level 25 bunch of newbie pilots - to combat readiness in about 3 or 4 months.

Last and biggest recommendations: Train at the biggest bases possible, with OVER 20,000 Supply and (hopefully) an Air HQ - gets 'em all flying daily.
One Last bit of advice - take the time to give the training squadron a good leader.

Hope that helps.

B

[szmike]

Also of note - pilots train about twice as quickly in Allied offmap bases... it maybe bias, but my experience is such.

Aren't offmap bases influenced by weather? It would explain that.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Big B

This is a good question and deserves some thought.
Like some previous posters have mentioned Defense is all-important.

What I have found works best for fighter units is the following (but this takes a bit longer)-
1) Fill the training unit to 100% of allowed pilots (ratio is now more pilots than aircraft, which slows it down a bit - but will pay dividends if the unit is sent intact to combat).
2) Have the Unit train ESCORT 100% under 10,000 feet, and ZERO Range (reason is NOT to Waste air-frames, greater altitude has no effect anyway). ESCORT seems to raise Defensive Skill, Experience, and Air Skill Simultaneously faster than any other, until the unit hits Experience 55 or greater.
3) When the unit hits about 55 Exp, check it EVERY DAY - to see to what experience is being gained. Once gain is down to one or two pilots per day - switch to 100% CAP... Again check daily to watch until experience gain AGAIN drops to one or two pilots per day.
4) At that point, Switch back and forth between CAP and TRAINING ESCORT until, after a day or two - no one is gaining experience.
5) By this time, Air Skill should be around 70, Experience above 60, Defense above 60 - now is the time to introduce a week or two at a time of Strafing to gain more Defense (ground/naval attack at altitude 100 feet), and to a lesser degree Experience.
6) At this point your Air Skill should be a solid 70+, Experience 64+, Defense over 60. Now it's a matter of giving the unit new training missions every couple days to boost the three key Experience Ratings - Exp\Air|Def, and intermix with CAP every few days (Flying CAP increases Air Skill and Experience fast).

Using this method takes a level 25 bunch of newbie pilots - to combat readiness in about 3 or 4 months.

Last and biggest recommendations: Train at the biggest bases possible, with OVER 20,000 Supply and (hopefully) an Air HQ - gets 'em all flying daily.
One Last bit of advice - take the time to give the training squadron a good leader.

Hope that helps.

B

You should change the 100% (or 90% depending on fatigue) CAP if your goal is Experience gain. They will gain experience faster on CAP than on training. Don't switch back and forth, or switch the missions around. All you'll do with that is just spread the gains around. If you want particular things, you should focus the training or missions on those particular things.

Biggest base past a certain point (large enough to have supplies and maintain the planes) doesn't matter. Likewise, to my knowledge offmap vs. onmap base doesn't matter a hoot.

[bush]

Big B,

What constitutes a "good training leader?"

[Big B]

Since we are talking Fighter Squadrons, I always put the leader in the squadron that's going to take them into combat (so he's not just a training leader).
To that end, I select a leader who is above 55 in Leadership, Inspiration, and Aggression, and above 60 in Air Skill.

Admin skill may be very important for training and reconstituting the unit - but since you seldom get that many good qualities in every leader (and different nations have VERY different leader pools), I default to the four categories I sited above.


B

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Big B,

What constitutes a "good training leader?"

[Lokasenna]

I don't bother changing leaders of training squadrons. There isn't much point. As long as they aren't abysmal, then they're good enough. Anything 50+ in Leadership/Inspiration/Air is just fine. Those are the only 3 that could conceivably affect pilot training, by doing the following respectively:

Experience gain rates (allegedly)

Maintaining high morale (not really that useful because morale won't drop if you have range at 0 and altitude at a suitable level)

Preventing Ops losses (maybe)

[szmike]

For training any leader with Leadership 55+ will do, inspiration probably makes more pilots fly, so it's good to have, otherwise nothing seem important enough to bother.
There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains, but I don't know if it holds true with all the changes over the years.

[Lokasenna]

I don't think it was ever true - that was only ever just conjecture, and remains so.

[InfiniteMonkey]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't think it was ever true - that was only ever just conjecture, and remains so.

I've run a pretty large set of sandbox tests on training and to this point I can tell you that ALL of the following affect the rate of pilot exp gain:

1. Number of aircraft - You should have the max aircraft available in the squadron for maximum rate of exp gain.
2. The leader - specifically the Leadership of the leader should be greater than the exp of all the pilots training in the group. To save PP, move the pilots, not the leader.
3. The group experience bonus - the reason for putting a few good pilots in the group is that they raise the group's average experience. If a pilot is below the group's average experience, they gain skill and exp faster.
4. The presence of 81+ skill pilots in the training group increases the rate of experience gain, but not as much as items 1-3 above do.

One thing I don't see anyone mention is pilot stratification. I stratify my pilots - I throw every pilot I have into the Reserve Pool and then pull them back into air groups by Exp. The effect of that is that I get the group exp bonus for all the trainees with a minimum number of advanced pilots. Note in the attached screenshot how every pilot is either 62 or 36 Exp (every pilot in the group is exp 62, 36, or 35). Every 36/35 pilot will get the group exp bonus when training. Compare that with an air group where pilots are loaded straight from the Replacement Pool, the range of pilots will range from about 28-40. It takes a lot more, and better, pilots to bring the average up so that all the trainee pilots get the group exp bonus.

Note by the way that all of the above bonuses are documented in the Pilot Management Addendum, C:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\Manuals\Pilot Management Addendum.pdf, Section 7. Training