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Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464

 
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Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 6:16:52 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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tc464 (Ted) and I are planning to start a GC campaign (Scenario 1) sometime in the future, after patch 2 arrives. I'm currently preparing turn 1 and am roughly 60-70% complete. In the mean time, I'm going to discuss what I'm doing in preparation for the Great Adventure. I'll try to explain my reasoning. Keep in mind that I haven't played any turns so I'm basing it on other AARs currently being played out as well as what I think I have learned from asking lots of questions. Note that I had nothing to do with the development of this beast, so all I really have to draw on is this forum and WitP (which may or may not be a good thing).

Ted and I started a WitP campaign back in 2005 after I returned from deployment and stopped only when AE finally came out. He's proven to be a wily and talented opponent. I'm looking forward to getting back into a PBEM.

Anyway, here we go....

We don't have many house rules. We both stay away from gamey tactics. Here's the few we came up with:

1. No bombing of Chinese industry by either side. This would starve out the army.
2. Invasions only at base (including dot base) hexes. There's enough to protect as it is without having to worry about defending non-base hexes.
3. The Allied player can move only existing fleets on 7 Dec. Surprise! Guess who's coming to dinner?!
4. We'll discuss and implement any other house rules should they be needed.

The important option we decided on was PDU off. I asked for this. It should make things interesting. That option will drastically influence airframe production. For example, I will keep Ki-27b production on for a time because some of my IJAAF sentai/chutai can't upgrade. I haven't completed my analysis (withdrawal dates) but I suspect they withdraw relatively early. More on that later.

KB

I decided to have 4 of 6 F daitai sweep with the remaining two escort the bombers. All of the TBs are on port attack and the DBs are all set to airfield attack. My reasoning is that all of those nice 250 kg bombs just bounce off BBs. May as well have them hit something useful. My goals for the PH attack:
1. Kill as many P-40s and B-17s as possible.
2. Kill as many ships as possible in this order: DD, SS, support types, CA, CL, BB.
Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

Resource/Oil/Transport Stuff

I have allocated 250 hulls (+ 3x 1250 ton TKs) to transport resources to Honshu from the other Home Islands as well as China/Manchuria/Korea (C/M/K). They are all in the 10-12 kt range. If you want I can post the details. There will be a total of 23 xAK TFs and 1 TK TF. The TK TF gets 2 escorts and the others get 1 escort each (for now) for a total of 25 escorts. I think this will keep Honshu supplied with resources and will keep the oil produced in Shikuka flowing to Honshu. I’ll adjust as needed.

I have scheduled 23 To’su xAKs for conversion to PBs. They’ll be ready in 21 days:

3 at Osaka
4 at Hiroshima
7 at Nagasaki
3 at Fusan
6 at Pescadores

I like the To’sus because their PB speed is 12 kts. This allows them to be used with the vast majority of the merchant TFs. They aren’t missed as xAKs because of their low cargo capacity (170 tons).

Std-C xAKs – These 17 ships are available for conversion to TKs in Jun 42. I think they are going to be needed so I am not planning on using them if possible until they are available for conversion. Sixteen are tucked away in (or moving to) various ports where they will sit and rust until they convert. (The last begins in a convoy. She’ll move to a safe port after she discharges her cargo.)

xAPs – I’m moving these ships to various locations to pick up some major units to move them out quickly. The LCUs include the 4, 21 and 33 IDs. The remaining xAPs (mainly 18-23 kt ships) will move to Tokyo as a reserve to move units out of Japan as needed

Initial base increases:

Ports:
Ominato 5-6
Sendai 3-5
Maizuru 5-6
Okayama 4-8
Tsu 4-5
Takamatsu 4-6
Kagoshima 4-5
Fusan 4-5
Tsingtao 4-5
Haiphong 4-6
Saigon 5-6
Truk 6-7

Airfields:
Babeldaob 3-4

The vast majority of these are bases used to ship resources/oil from the outlying Home Islands to Honshu. By increasing the port size, I may be able to reduce the number of xAKs needed.

My goal here is simple. The resources produced in the Home Islands, Formosa, China, Manchuria and Korea are can (with the initial reserves at those locations) support all of the HI and LI at those locations for the entire war. The goal is to refine as much as oil as is produced. There is excess refining capacity in those areas and the SRA to do this with plenty of refining capacity to spare. So, the big problem will be to ship oil to refineries. Most of that will occur after the SRA is liberated. It'll be discussed later.

Economic expansion:
LI - none
Refineries - none
HI - initially none. As the war plays out, I will consider increasing this modestly to gain HI. It'll all be based on fuel and supply reserves. The goal is to gain HI, not supply. I will consider it a net supply loss. If I break even in supply, so much the better.

Economic repair of the SRA:
LI - none
Refineries - none (but I reserve judgement here).
HI - none (but see above)
Oil - all
Resources - none

More to come....

Oh yeah, discussion is most welcome.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 6:25:18 PM   
Canoerebel


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Good luck, Mike. I appreciate the detail here. So far I'm an Allied player only, but eventually I hope to play as Japan and your AAR will be a great tutorial, guide, and resource.

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Post #: 2
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 7:31:48 PM   
stldiver


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Save some of those Tosu's 170tonners to ACM's you will need quite a few as each saves 150 mines, they just need to be parked.
Most of your minefields will start decaying on day one. I have found the Tosu's range an impediment early on for most convoys, thus converting to ACM's and saving the mines (limited resource) was a better option.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 8:07:24 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Thanks Canoerebel.

PPs
 
I intend to use PPs sparingly early on.  I will check the carrier commanders and change out any that are not carrier commander material.  The rest of the points will be saved for a regimental/brigade sized unit for use against Pt. Moresby, which I intend to take early (late Dec or early Jan at the latest).  I'm considering buying the Guards Bde in Tokyo, but may buy out a Japanese Division in the Kwangtung Army regiment by regiment for use by the SE Fleet.  There are some nice units there.  After that, I intend to save up and consider what to do with the Golden Horde (PPs). 

SRA

14 Army

This army intends to secure the Philippines.  In addition to the pre-planned and loaded TFs, I'm loading the 48 ID, 65 Bde and a Tank Regiment to secure Lingayen.  I hope to cut off a couple of units in the north of the island from Clark Field/Manila.

15 Army

I intend to invade Burma as early as possible with this army.  The 33 ID (in Nagasaki) will load beginning on 8 Dec and head to Bangkok (in 17 kt xAPs).  The remainder of the army is headed north on foot, with the exception of the 143 IR, which begins on ships.  They'll head to their historical destinations (several small bases along the neck of land north of Malaya.

16 Army

This army has a goal of supporting the Malayan invasion, taking Mindinao and then taking Tarakan and Balikpapan.  Initially, elements of the 2 ID (in Japan) begin loaded on ships headed for Malaya.  Elements of the army starting at Babeldaob will head for Mindinao and more elements in Japan will load and head for Mindinao.  After the liberation of Mindinao, the victorious units will move to either the Philippines or Malaya, depending on the situation.  There is an outside chance of them moving directly on Tarakan, but we'll see. 

The 38 ID is part of this army.  After the liberation of Hong Kong, this division will support the Malayan campaign.

The final objective is Java.

25 Army

The first objective for this army is Malaya.  Many units of this army are located in Samah.  I am loading 4 artillery units and 4 AA units in addition to the forces already loaded for movement to Malaya.  I may attempt to force a landing in south central Malaya with armor to attempt to cut off some Allied troops from Singapore.  We'll see....

-----------------------------------
The units belonging to the Southern Army will be divided as necessary among the above armies to support them.  Also note that I am planning on moving on Miri/Brunei relatively early on (within a couple of weeks of the opening of hostilities).
-----------------------------------

Supporting Elements

Air Support

Philippines:
5 Air Division
21 Air Flotilla
23 Air Flotilla (to SE Fleet at conclusion of mobile portion of Philippine Campaign)

Malaya:
3 Air Division
22 Air Flotilla

Burma:
Minor Elements of 3 Air Division
22 Air Flotilla (after conclusion of Malayan Campaign)

--------------------------------

Other Odds 'n Ends
 
I am going to use the 1st Raiding Unit to perform an air assault on the Andaman Islands very early.  As soon as it is secured, I will fly in an avn spt unit, engineers and more infantry as well as some Zeros.  I really like that place.  I'll then withdraw the Raiding Unit and prepare for it's next mission.

Additional Naval Support

I am sending 4 BBs (with CL and DD escort) to this theater.  Every attack will have BB and/or CA support.  I hope to send the PoW and Repulse to a watery grave soon.  The Ryujo will be supported by the Hosho and Zuiho.  The Ryujo will hover in the area south of Jolo to intercept fleeing Allied shipping.  The Hosho and Zuiho will sail toward the Philippines from the east to intercept any Allied shipping fleeing in that direction.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 8:10:11 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stldiver

Save some of those Tosu's 170tonners to ACM's you will need quite a few as each saves 150 mines, they just need to be parked.
Most of your minefields will start decaying on day one. I have found the Tosu's range an impediment early on for most convoys, thus converting to ACM's and saving the mines (limited resource) was a better option.




Interesting. I haven't looked at that yet. We start with 33 ACMs. That's not enough?! Maybe I'll take a look at that tonight.

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Post #: 5
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 8:22:08 PM   
Historiker


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You want to replace Kiso ACMs with To'su ACMs. Here's where the prefered conversions should be and where to send the ships:
http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Prefered_Japanese_Conversions


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Post #: 6
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 8:36:34 PM   
Mike Solli


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Thanks Historiker.  I'm still not convinced that To'sus don't make good PBs.  Granted they have short range, but the 12 kt speed is nice. 

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Post #: 7
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 8:43:13 PM   
Historiker


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They are better used as AMc, ACM and AGs.Compared with other small ships, converting them is the smallest loss of cargo while they should be still big enough to rearm DCs as an AG.
While they may be refuelled by the ships they guard, this still takes time and means longer at sea. Also, every static job a To'su can do that's done by another ship is a waste of range and cargo.
Of course, guarding convois from honshu to kyushu has to be done, too - and can be done by them as well. I won't convert every To'su away from PB as well. But I'll let my To'sus do all the other jobs where they can replace bigger ships without a loss of efficiancy.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 8
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 10:08:47 PM   
Fletcher


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From: Jerez, Spain, EU
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Good luck !
I will have an eye on your AAR !.
Best wishes
Fletcher


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Post #: 9
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/29/2009 10:17:14 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
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From: Turin, Italy
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Hi Mike,

my little experience acquired during my games...

quote:

4. We'll discuss and implement any other house rules should they be needed.


Maybe this one: restricted command units must pay PP's to change to an unrestricted command.

quote:

The important option we decided on was PDU off. I asked for this. It should make things interesting.


I agree, my next game will have the same option. Anyhow in the actual game that I'm playing I will not convert 2E to 4E planes.

quote:

All of the TBs are on port attack and the DBs are all set to airfield attack. My reasoning is that all of those nice 250 kg bombs just bounce off BBs. May as well have them hit something useful. My goals for the PH attack:
1. Kill as many P-40s and B-17s as possible.
2. Kill as many ships as possible in this order: DD, SS, support types, CA, CL, BB.


I think that DB's will be useful in port attack as well, they have a bonus. No Zero in strafing.
I launched a second attack the day after and it has been a good day, the FOW said me 6 BB's sunk (maybe another one) and 4/5 in the second attack . The aircraft losses have been light.

quote:

I have allocated 250 hulls (+ 3x 1250 ton TKs) to transport resources to Honshu from the other Home Islands as well as China/Manchuria/Korea (C/M/K). They are all in the 10-12 kt range.


I do not know how many ships I have allocated but I spent a lot of time to create this TF's, but most importantly this system work very well

quote:

Economic expansion:
LI - none
Refineries - none
HI - initially none. As the war plays out, I will consider increasing this modestly to gain HI. It'll all be based on
quote:

fuel and supply reserves. The goal is to gain HI, not supply. I will consider it a net supply loss. If I break even in supply, so much the better.


I do not want to increase the HI, at the moment I think are enough.

quote:

Economic repair of the SRA:
LI - none
Refineries - none (but I reserve judgement here).
HI - none (but see above)
Oil - all
Resources - none


I choose to sent the oil to Honshu and I'm repairing only oil centers too.

quote:

PPs

I intend to use PPs sparingly early on. I will check the carrier commanders and change out any that are not carrier commander material. The rest of the points will be saved for a regimental/brigade sized unit for use against Pt. Moresby, which I intend to take early (late Dec or early Jan at the latest). I'm considering buying the Guards Bde in Tokyo, but may buy out a Japanese Division in the Kwangtung Army regiment by regiment for use by the SE Fleet. There are some nice units there. After that, I intend to save up and consider what to do with the Golden Horde (PPs).


I'm buying tank and artillery units for China theater, they are very useful in open ground especially in pursuit duty.

I'm very interested how you will schedule the aircraft production and the pilots training.

Good luck!

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Post #: 10
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 1:23:37 AM   
erstad

 

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From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stldiver

Save some of those Tosu's 170tonners to ACM's you will need quite a few as each saves 150 mines, they just need to be parked.
Most of your minefields will start decaying on day one. I have found the Tosu's range an impediment early on for most convoys, thus converting to ACM's and saving the mines (limited resource) was a better option.



FWIW, I converted most of my Tosu's to PBs too. Yeah, the legs are short, but they can refuel from the transports and the extra knot means you aren't slowing your other transports by almost 10%. (A large chunk of the transport fleet is 12 and 14 knots, so pair the 12 knot escorts with the 12 knot ships, etc.)

If you decide you want more ACMs, you can always convert a couple of the <forget the class, it's the 795 capacity ships), the 11 knots won't matter for a ship that sits tight. I think I made a couple of ACMs but you really don't get that many mines, and I've decided that some of the original minefields are in places I'm willing to let decay.


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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 4:44:37 AM   
jwilkerson


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From: San Jose, CA
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Make sure you get your conversions done quickly. I find my shipyard capacity remains busy performing repairs and upgrades, like right now we have 5 CAs in the yards, not to mention numerous other craft.



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Post #: 12
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 9:39:43 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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Thanks for chiming in, guys.

Blind Sniper:  Not sure about a second PH attack.  I'll make the decision after the we get the results of the first attack.  I'm very reluctant to expend pilots, especially IJNAF pilots.

Joe, I sorta figured that too.  7 Dec 41 will most likely be the only day of the war where there aren't ships being repaired or limping to a repair yard.  I'm probably going to start some other conversions but will do that sparingly.  I haven't finished that part yet.

Airframe Production (Engines come later)

I'm not adjusting any r&d factories yet.  I'll worry about that later.

I'm going to make the following changes to the currently producing factories (note that all of the others will remain at their current production level and on):

A6M2 56 to ~100 (see below - there will be no change to this factory)
B5N2 0 to 32
D3A1 12 to 24
F1M2 change to L3Y2 Tina (~8-10 or so)
G3M2 possibly 22 to 44
G4M1 25 to 50
H6K4 6 to 12
Ki-36 change to A6M2 and increase to ~40-50.  Eventually I'll convert to A6M3 or maybe wait until late 42 and the A6M3a.
Ki-43-Ic 32 to 64
Ki-51 turn off for now.

A few notes....
Remember, PDU is off so many of my air units can not upgrade. 
 
IJN
Fighters:  The A6M2 is the mainstay for quite a while.  I will upgrade all I can to them.  Those daitai/chutai that can not upgrade will be used in combat sparingly, if at all.  One of the few things I will splurge on is converting the Ki-36 factory to the A6M2 and later to the A6M3 or A6M3a.  The A6M2 converts to the A6M2 Sen Baku in 2/44.  I can't wait until 1944 to convert ~100 A6M2s.  They'll be obsolete long before then.

DBs:  Vals, of course.

TBs:  Kates, of course.  I went with the B5N2 primarily because I had little choice with PDU off.  I will use the Mabels and B5N1s until the pools are expended.

Float Planes:  I am reluctant to change production unless absolutely necessary and don't find it necessary with float planes.  We start with >150 in the pool (Jakes, Alfs, Daves and Petes) and I will use them all up.  In addition, we'll produce 27 Jakes a month.  For me, FPs are recon tools.  I couldn't care less what size bomb they carry.  Then there's the Glen.  They're needed for the subs.  I'll try to keep a dozen or so in the pool.

LBs:  The Nell and Betty each have their own upgrade paths, unlike WitP.  I'll keep each going and increase factory size if needed.

Recon:  The IJNAF have 3 chutai at the start of the war, and all begin with the C5M2 Babs.  Two of the chutai upgrade to the J1N1-C Irving in late 42.  There is no production of the Babs but there are 7 in the pool.  I feel this will last.  As the Irving is built, each chutai will convert and the remaining planes will keep the 3rd chutai filled. 

Patrol:  Unlike WitP, the H6K4 does not upgrade to the H8K1, so both need to be kept in production, at least for awhile.  I'm doubling the Mavis, just in case. 

Transports:  The IJN starts with a handful of transports.  There are 25 Tinas and a handful of H6K2-L Mavis in the Pacific.  I'm going to produce some Tinas to keep that daitai flush.  I'm going to be (relatively) aggressive with my paratroopers and want to make sure they have means to surprise the enemy.

IJA
Fighters:  The mainstay is the Nate initially.  About half of the starting IJA fighter slots upgrade to a version of the Ki-43, primarily the Ki-43-Ic.  That's where I'm putting my emphasis.  Initially, I will allow the Ki-27 to continue production.  Not sure how long though.  There are 254 Ki-27 engines in the pool.  Do I want to use them all?  Probably not, but it depends on the speed of the upgrades to better aircraft.  We'll just have to see.  I don't want a bunch of Ki-27s sitting in the pool.  We'll just have to play it by ear.

Medium Bombers:  These are primarily Lilys and Sallys with a few Helens as upgrades.  I'll try not to increase production of the Lilys and Sallys if possible.

Light Bombers:  This is a mess.  There are 39 Ki-36 slots that do not upgrade.  The rest will upgrade as quickly as possible.  These units upgrade to light bombers, medium bombers or recon as follows:  12x Ki-46-II, 85x various Ki-48, 129 Ki-51 and 147 Ki-51b.  I still have to look at the Ki-30 and -32 to see how effective they are.  I may or may not expend their pools depending on how inept they are.  I may have to restart Ki-51 production, but we'll see.

Recon:  This is simple.  Expend the Ki-15s and the Ki-46-Is eventually replacing them with the Ki-46-IIs.  It is interesting to note that two of the chutai convert to the Ki-30 and Ki-51.

Transports:  All the transports eventually upgrade to the Ki-57-II or the Ki-49-II KAI transports (81 and 60 respectively).  At the start, I'm producing 2x Ki-56 and 6x Ki-57-I a month.  Eventually, I'll convert the Ki-56 to something else (not sure what yet) and probably increase the Ki-57-I to 12 or so.  There are some tiny pools of the others that will have to last until I start getting the upgrade types.

Discussion of engines later.

A small discussion on how I view the air force....

The IJNAF is made to destroy the enemy navy.  I will rarely use Nells, Bettys or carrier air against land targets.  7 Dec is probably the only time you'll see Nells and Bettys hit ground targets.  That's what the IJAAF is for.  Their 2E bombers are the primary means of bombing airfields and ground troops.  The IJAAF 1E bombers are relegated to backwaters as much as possible.  They are pretty much deathtraps.

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Post #: 13
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 9:55:58 PM   
Q-Ball


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Mike, I'll be a reader! I won't comment on production, I'm certain you have that more than handled!

What are your initial plans in some of these areas?:

SW PAC: Are you going to bypass Guam for Rabaul right away?

SOUTHERN DEI: How about an early move in Timor? You really have to pull together the necessary base forces and construction troops for this, but I think it's worth it. I like to divert the Legaspi invasion to Ambon; more useful there. Then, move immediately on Koepang, and grab that before the end of December. This prevents A/C transfers from Oz to java, other than B-17.

PHASE 2: Any thoughts yet on Phase 2 objective?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 14
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 9:57:31 PM   
fabertong


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From: Bristol, England, U.K.
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Ahhh......
Thank Thread.....
Mike, here is where I will learn what I need to know to take on Speedy.......starting after the patch........in my GC game.....I think ours will be PDUs on.......but otherwise.......this AAR will be Mana(sp) from heaven..........for JFBs and Penguins alike.......(btw.....I will post an update to Threadwar....and thanks for the latest advise).....

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Post #: 15
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 10:00:55 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Mike, I'll be a reader! I won't comment on production, I'm certain you have that more than handled!

What are your initial plans in some of these areas?:

SW PAC: Are you going to bypass Guam for Rabaul right away?

SOUTHERN DEI: How about an early move in Timor? You really have to pull together the necessary base forces and construction troops for this, but I think it's worth it. I like to divert the Legaspi invasion to Ambon; more useful there. Then, move immediately on Koepang, and grab that before the end of December. This prevents A/C transfers from Oz to java, other than B-17.

PHASE 2: Any thoughts yet on Phase 2 objective?


Q-Ball, please comment on production all you want. I learn things every day. I plan on talking about plans tomorrow when I can post a few maps. That mention of Koepang is interesting. I don't typically like to move that far south that soon, but that's an interesting idea. Gotta think about that tonight.

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Post #: 16
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/30/2009 10:04:52 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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Hi faber.  Good to see you.  I'm looking at this AAR as a discussion of Japanese strategy/tactics where I get to try them out.  Only problem is that I'm stuck with any oopsies.  All of us JFBs can argue amongst ourselves to try and figure out the best way to do things.

Looking forward to see whats going on in the threadwar.

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Post #: 17
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 10/31/2009 7:06:55 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3677
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
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Hey Mike

Looks like this will be a great AAR for both PBEM and AI Japanese players. the detail on japanese production is just what the doctor ordered. Thank you very much.

And good luck ,, be keeping an eye out here too but i'm primarily a coward (allied player) so won't be able to comment sensibly on japanese economy. Tactical matters are another ball game though.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 18
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/2/2009 2:04:36 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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Hi Rob.  Welcome.  Allied comments are welcome here too!  It may give me an idea to pull a nasty trick on Ted.

The preparation continues.  I spent a good chunk of Saturday trying to make sense of the China situation.  What I want to do there is to use the recruits there as garrisons and free up the max amount of troops for offensive actions.  Saturday was a dismal failure. I tried several times to figure out who should go where unsuccessfully. 

I had a couple of goals.  One was to try to have an offensive force for each army.  That way, I could use the maximum number of Army HQs offensively to be able to hit the Chinese from the maximum number of directions at once (potentially).  That won't quite work though.  Here's a discussion of each Japanese Army in China:

North China Area Army: Composed of 1, 12, Mongol and NCPC Armies.  AO is the northern half of China.

Mongol Garrison Army - About 50% garrison troops but there are a few nice (meaning high exp and morale) units for limited offensive actions early in the game.  They will clean up the few Chinese units in the north and then guard the Northern flank of China.

NCPC Army - This army is composed entirely of garrison troops.  If you break down the two RGC Temp. Divs, you can stack one of those "regiments" with an NCPC brigade to create 50 AV garrison. 

1 Army - This is the primary assault force in the north.  It is composed of some nice units and should do well.  I just need to concentrate them.  It's weak point is that it contains only 1 artillery unit.

12 Army - This is the second "offensive" force.  It is composed of 1 division and 2 brigades.  It will form the southern screen for the 1 Army.

North China Area Army Units - After garrison units are removed, there are 2 divisions, 4 brigades and 2 tank regiments available for offensive operations.  They will be used to augment the 1 and 12 Armies as well as screening forces.

North China Area Army Weakiness:  Artillery!  My intent is to augment this Area Army with artillery from Kwantung as PPs are available.

China Expeditionary Army:  Composed of China Area Fleet, 11, 13, 23 and RGC Armies.  It's AO is the southern half of China as well as the Canton area.

23 Army - This army will garrison Canton, Hong Kong and the coastal bases to the east.

China Area Fleet - They will garrison coastal bases.

11 Army - Offensive force in the Hankow area.

13 Army - Offensive force in the Shanghai area.

RGC Army - Garrison force exclusively.

China Expeditionary Army Forces - About a divisional equivalent of infantry and 1 tank regiment.  The only "artillery" are 2 RF Gun Bns.  They are not really artillery.

The Japanese Army in China needs support.  I'd love to buy 8-9 artillery units, ~3 tank regiments and a couple of engineer regiments from Kwantung for them.  It'll probably never happen....

Oh yeah, the IJAAF in China.  Not much to speak of at all.  The only reinforcements it'll ever get is what the reinforcement schedule gives them.  They are also second to last on the priority list (before the Kwantung Air Force) to upgrade their planes to more modern types.  If the AVG shows up there, I'll probably upgrade one sentai to the Ki-43-Ic, but only to fight the AVG.

Oh yeah, I finally figured out the garrisons for China on Sunday while I was at my daughter's horse show.  I did better looking at the unit/location list when away from the computer screen.  I stared at it so long on Saturday that I pretty much memorized the map of China.  Pretty scary.


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Post #: 19
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/2/2009 2:11:13 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4513
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: online
Yep good luck Mike!

I guess ill be a regular visitor!

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S**t happens in war.

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Post #: 20
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/2/2009 2:19:13 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1878
Joined: 8/9/2009
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The ways an allied player can torture you are endless. Sink a convoy and watch you figure out how to rearrange your ships, decimate an auxilliary Chinese unit and you'll tear out all you hair moving troops to their new garrison locations . Then again, wars are won by logistics and I don't think there are many that'll beat you there. Good luck

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 21
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/2/2009 2:35:00 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
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Smeulders, you're right and Ted is an expert at driving me nuts.  But then, I do my best to drive him nuts too.

Oh, by the way, logistics is important, but if you lose KB, it's meaningless.

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Post #: 22
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/5/2009 7:56:07 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Here's my supply cost for my initial industry increase. This is just for airframe and engine increases:






Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 23
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/5/2009 9:43:57 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
I like these opening moves:

*GUAM: Cancel this invasion. Send 144th Regt and Base Force to Rabaul. You can take Guam at your liesure with a Nav Gd or something.
*WAKE: Postpone this invasion. Take the Nav Gd heading for Tarawa, send it north to join the Wake Invasion TF, and use BOTH of them on Wake. They will take it 100% of the time. You don't need to land on Makin now. Divert the Makin Inv. force to Tarawa.
*LEGASPI: Cancel the landing at Legaspi. Take the 2 SNLF units pointed there, land them at Ambon instead. They will take the base first try. That will kick you off on Southern DEI move. As soon as Ambon is taken, land them on Koepang. Just have an AIR HQ, a Base Force from Takao headed there turn 1, and send Fuel/Supplies from Japan turn one. A Bat Div wouldn't hurt either.
*16th Div: Don't land it at Legaspi either. Try Altimonaon, or whatever that is. Why walk all the way to Manila, when the Allies are unlikely to defend that whole stretch?
*2nd Div: Cancel the landing at Kuching; you don't need to sail all the way from Japan for that move. Personally, I unload that TF, and send it to Malaya. 2 Regts are already 100% prepped for Singapore.

Prep Gds Bde or that elite Manchukuo regt. turn one for Port Moresby. That, and the 144th Regt will allow you to take the place early Jan no problem.

That's my opening move advice on the IJA, hope it helps!

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 24
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/5/2009 11:20:44 PM   
stldiver


Posts: 721
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From: St. Louis, USA
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I used the Naval unit that attacks Bataan to take Guam. Its one of the units that gets the quick first jump move. The Eng unit can take Bataan on its own. This cleans up Guam quickly for little expense.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 25
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/5/2009 11:57:18 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I like these opening moves:

*GUAM: Cancel this invasion. Send 144th Regt and Base Force to Rabaul. You can take Guam at your liesure with a Nav Gd or something.
*WAKE: Postpone this invasion. Take the Nav Gd heading for Tarawa, send it north to join the Wake Invasion TF, and use BOTH of them on Wake. They will take it 100% of the time. You don't need to land on Makin now. Divert the Makin Inv. force to Tarawa.
*LEGASPI: Cancel the landing at Legaspi. Take the 2 SNLF units pointed there, land them at Ambon instead. They will take the base first try. That will kick you off on Southern DEI move. As soon as Ambon is taken, land them on Koepang. Just have an AIR HQ, a Base Force from Takao headed there turn 1, and send Fuel/Supplies from Japan turn one. A Bat Div wouldn't hurt either.
*16th Div: Don't land it at Legaspi either. Try Altimonaon, or whatever that is. Why walk all the way to Manila, when the Allies are unlikely to defend that whole stretch?
*2nd Div: Cancel the landing at Kuching; you don't need to sail all the way from Japan for that move. Personally, I unload that TF, and send it to Malaya. 2 Regts are already 100% prepped for Singapore.

Prep Gds Bde or that elite Manchukuo regt. turn one for Port Moresby. That, and the 144th Regt will allow you to take the place early Jan no problem.

That's my opening move advice on the IJA, hope it helps!



Interesting Q-Ball. Here's my comments on your suggestions:

Guam - I do exactly the same thing. I haven't figured out who to use on Guam yet.
Wake - I do exactly the same thing.
Legaspi - I have already cancelled that invasion. Didn't think of Ambon for the SNLFs. Great idea!
16 Div - I do exactly the same thing but for a different reason. I want to cut off anything that may be further down the peninsula.
2 Div - I do exactly the same thing. Since they're already prepped for Singapore, why waste all that prep time.

Still not sure who to send on an all expense paid tour of PM. Will decide soon though.

That's truly amazing how similar we've been thinking about this. The Ambon idea is genius. Thanks!

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Post #: 26
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/5/2009 11:57:56 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stldiver

I used the Naval unit that attacks Bataan to take Guam. Its one of the units that gets the quick first jump move. The Eng unit can take Bataan on its own. This cleans up Guam quickly for little expense.


I think I've decided on who's going to Guam. Thanks!

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(in reply to stldiver)
Post #: 27
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/6/2009 6:14:29 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
You don't even really need Batan Is. You do need an airbase on Northern Luzon, but Appari/Tugegerao is fine, take your pick. Will require some construction though.

For what it's worth, I like these first week moves:

1. Miri: It's ready to go, why not?
2. Singkawang: Bigger airbase than Kuching. Put an AIR HQ here. That will close the area to Allied shipping first week.
In my PBEM, I then landed on BILLITON. I brought a bunch of engineers, but had a big airbase in about 2-3 weeks, and it's perfectly positioned to support Sumatra, Java, etc.
3. Ambon, Kendari, Koepang; pick up and drop off same units over and over
4. Northern Luzon: Initially, just get troops ashore and set up airbases. Objective is to make Allied commit to Manila or Clark, and then begin the siege.

I would prep 21st Mixed Bde and 4th Mixed Regt up by Hanoi for Batavia. Land them on Java early January; they aren't strong enough to take it, but you can start wearing down the Dutch airforce. The Dutch troops get stronger if you wait, better to move early while they are weak. Same with the KNIL air units, in march they start getting real fighters.

Overall, I try to land on any airbase that is size 2+, and bypass everything else for later. If the Allies can't fly attack aircraft off it, the only real way a size 1 airbase can hurt you is by having Search Planes there helping the subs, but that's it.

I just feel that speed is key for Japan in the SRA. And speed depends almost entirely on the Japanese player's ability to plan ahead and have the logistical pipeline going; by that I mean fuel, supplies, engineers, base forces, air HQs, and other stuff to keep pushing ops. You have plenty of Infantry at the tip of the spear to work with, it's the stuff behind that will slow you down. Unless the Allies commit CVs or something, they can't seriously slow you down.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 28
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/6/2009 6:35:36 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

You don't even really need Batan Is. You do need an airbase on Northern Luzon, but Appari/Tugegerao is fine, take your pick. Will require some construction though.

For what it's worth, I like these first week moves:

1. Miri: It's ready to go, why not?
2. Singkawang: Bigger airbase than Kuching. Put an AIR HQ here. That will close the area to Allied shipping first week.
In my PBEM, I then landed on BILLITON. I brought a bunch of engineers, but had a big airbase in about 2-3 weeks, and it's perfectly positioned to support Sumatra, Java, etc.
3. Ambon, Kendari, Koepang; pick up and drop off same units over and over
4. Northern Luzon: Initially, just get troops ashore and set up airbases. Objective is to make Allied commit to Manila or Clark, and then begin the siege.

I would prep 21st Mixed Bde and 4th Mixed Regt up by Hanoi for Batavia. Land them on Java early January; they aren't strong enough to take it, but you can start wearing down the Dutch airforce. The Dutch troops get stronger if you wait, better to move early while they are weak. Same with the KNIL air units, in march they start getting real fighters.

Overall, I try to land on any airbase that is size 2+, and bypass everything else for later. If the Allies can't fly attack aircraft off it, the only real way a size 1 airbase can hurt you is by having Search Planes there helping the subs, but that's it.

I just feel that speed is key for Japan in the SRA. And speed depends almost entirely on the Japanese player's ability to plan ahead and have the logistical pipeline going; by that I mean fuel, supplies, engineers, base forces, air HQs, and other stuff to keep pushing ops. You have plenty of Infantry at the tip of the spear to work with, it's the stuff behind that will slow you down. Unless the Allies commit CVs or something, they can't seriously slow you down.


Q-Ball, one of us is reading the other's mind, although not quite as much as the last time.

1. Miri: I'll most likely take that base the first week. The goal is to base some fighters and possibly recon there.
2. Singkawang: I've eyeballed that base. I'm a bit reluctant to take it the first week because of Allied air power in the area (primarily Singapore). I'll probably take it after Miri.
3. Ambon, Kendari, Koepang: With the adjustment to Ambon with the 2 SNLFs, that's the thing to do.
4. Northern Luzon: I'm going to push a substantial force to Lingayan. The forces for Aparri and Vigan are still going on as scheduled. The Aparri invasion has some air support so I may add some engineers to build up the base somewhat.

I was planning on keeping the 4th Mixed Reg where it was, but I really doubt Ted will advance there. He has little interest with China other than an occasional air offensive that will die out when the supply dwindles. Now I'm going to reconsider....

In WitP, the important airbases were those that were 4+. Gotta remember that that's not the case anymore. Gotta read up on the airfield rules....

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Post #: 29
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 11/6/2009 7:33:47 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Mike, you are right on Lingayen; the thing to do on Luzon is to put only an SNLF up north, but a pile of construction troops and base forces; in Ligayen, unload the bulk of the combat troops. You don't need to unload troops at Appari, but you do need base forces up there.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 30
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