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Army Group & Theater unit-size display

 
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Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 3/3/2008 7:31:26 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 6729
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
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Sorry, but I have to post this here, since it's the only board that supports .png. Lesser formats won't show the necessary detail. If an administrator would like to move the thread to Scenario Design that would be great.

I've modified the "Numbers.bmp" file to allow display of Army Group and Theater unit sizes. I then edited my "Germany 1945 (Last Stand)" scenario to use it. I put the modified "Numbers.bmp" file in the graphics sub-folder for that scenario, then edited the unit sizes for all the units in the scenario as follows:

To Display ----------- Use
Theater --------------- Army
Army Group --------- Corps
Army ----------------- Division
Corps ---------------- Regiment
Division -------------- Battalion
Brigade -------------- Company
Regiment ------------ Platoon
Battalion ------------- Squad
Company ------------ N/A
Platoon --------------- N/A
Squad ---------------- N/A

Note that the smallest unit size that can be displayed with this Numbers.bmp is the Battalion, and it will be indivisible. Company, Platoon, and Squad unit-sizes can't be displayed.

Also note that the use of the Brigade size is skipped. You can use it and it will display a Corps, but if subdivided by 2, the sub-units will be Corps. Also, note that units displaying the brigade units size will subdivide into regiments, regardless of whether they are divided by 2 or 3. And, also, units displaying a Division unit size will subdivide into brigades whether they are divided by 2 or 3.

Finally, note that the smaller unit sizes may rebuild faster, since unit size impacts rebuild rate at the smaller sizes.

In the attached screenshot, units circled in Yellow are displaying the Army Group size; units circled in Red are displaying the Theater size.

The actual Numbers.bmp file has been posted in the Graphic Mod thread in the Scenario Design forum.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 3/3/2008 7:46:32 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 3/3/2008 7:36:41 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 6729
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
Here's a closer look at the unit size things zoomed up to Huge display mode.




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< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 3/3/2008 7:38:03 PM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
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RE: Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 5/31/2008 9:16:08 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 6729
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Sorry, but I have to post this here, since it's the only board that supports .png. Lesser formats won't show the necessary detail. If an administrator would like to move the thread to Scenario Design that would be great.


I still think such a move would be desirable.

I just wanted to note that I've now done a complete test of the Germany 1945 scenario that I modified with this feature, and it worked fine (as I think my AAR showed).

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 3
RE: Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 6/1/2008 12:34:32 AM   
rhinobones

 

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After reading through this post, it becomes even more compelling that TOAW should someday have a true HQ hierarchy. In this scenario it would be really good to see the leadership flow from Theater to the lower rungs the ladder. With that said, here are two comments that you may want to consider for a future update: 1) a different graphic for Theater, Army Group and Army HQ icons and 2) different unit counters (something other than the HQ unit counter) for the Theater, Army Group and Army HQ units. Hopefully suggestion #2 will answer questions raised by suggestion #1.

#1 – Visually having four, five and six X’s identifying the rank of the HQ gets to be a bit messy. Hard to distinguish one level from the other and, in actuality, since there is no HQ hierarchy in TOAW, it is of little value to the player. Historical eye candy, yes, functional, no. Suggest that instead of identifying Theater, Army Group and Army HQ units as shown, a set of unit counters be modified graphically so that inside the box the “HQ” is replaced with XXXXXX, XXXXX or XXXX as required. Real hard to see the little x’s on top of the box, a bit easier to see bigger X’s inside the box. Unused unit icons could be modified as needed. Also, if you open the graphics in a paint program, you will find that there are a few pixels left, right, up and down that can be used to accommodate a larger unit icon box. Room to move.

To back this up, I remember seeing some Overlord theater level maps that had the high level HQs displayed as such. Think the same can be incorporated into TOAW and your scenario.

#2 – I don’t really see Theater, Army Group and Army units as having logistics functions, i.e. providing supply and support to lower echelons. As such, I don’t think that they should have the attributes of the true HQ unit. Obviously they have critical Command and Control functions and their destruction could be acknowledged through events, but other than that, they have little value as fighting or G4 units. This is why I think you can take some used units and sculpt them into high level HQ units with the graphics described in #1. As an example, the KG or CCA graphic icons can be changed to XXXXXX, load it up with staff, and blammm . . . you have a Theater HQ. Might take some clever planning so that the ad hoc HQs do not divide, but I think that is just a small problem.

Submitted for your consideration.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 4
RE: Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 6/1/2008 7:34:12 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 6729
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

After reading through this post, it becomes even more compelling that TOAW should someday have a true HQ hierarchy. In this scenario it would be really good to see the leadership flow from Theater to the lower rungs the ladder.


Yes. But it's hard to figure out just how that hierarchy would actually manifest itself - what actual function would it physically impose on the game?

quote:

#1 – Visually having four, five and six X’s identifying the rank of the HQ gets to be a bit messy. Hard to distinguish one level from the other...


Somewhat true. But once you get used to it, it gets easier. And, there's always the "Huge" display mode.

quote:

... and, in actuality, since there is no HQ hierarchy in TOAW, it is of little value to the player. Historical eye candy, yes, functional, no.


That's correct. It's pure chrome. But, as I've stated before, I take chrome seriously. A big chunk of TOAW wargaming is chrome - unit/formation/equipment/place names, for example.

quote:

Suggest that instead of identifying Theater, Army Group and Army HQ units as shown, a set of unit counters be modified graphically so that inside the box the “HQ” is replaced with XXXXXX, XXXXX or XXXX as required. Real hard to see the little x’s on top of the box, a bit easier to see bigger X’s inside the box. Unused unit icons could be modified as needed. Also, if you open the graphics in a paint program, you will find that there are a few pixels left, right, up and down that can be used to accommodate a larger unit icon box. Room to move.


Sure. There are other ways of doing it. That way may be harder, since every color combination .bmp in use will have to be edited. And there's no telling if the icon you chose to edit for scenario 1 won't be needed for scenario 2, etc. And, if you really want the HQ function for those sizes, that's going to be a problem. The edit I made for the Numbers.bmp will work for all icons and all colors.

quote:

#2 – I don’t really see Theater, Army Group and Army units as having logistics functions, i.e. providing supply and support to lower echelons. As such, I don’t think that they should have the attributes of the true HQ unit. Obviously they have critical Command and Control functions and their destruction could be acknowledged through events, but other than that, they have little value as fighting or G4 units. This is why I think you can take some used units and sculpt them into high level HQ units with the graphics described in #1. As an example, the KG or CCA graphic icons can be changed to XXXXXX, load it up with staff, and blammm . . . you have a Theater HQ. Might take some clever planning so that the ad hoc HQs do not divide, but I think that is just a small problem.


For certain, in this scenario, I need the HQ's ranged feature, if not the supply feature. There were other ranged icons I could have used, though - but then I would have had to edit those icons as you suggest above - a lot of work. I'm not sure what the HQ logistic function is modeling. It may just be a measure of formation concentration - in which case, it applies to higher level HQs at this scale.

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 5
RE: Army Group & Theater unit-size display - 12/28/2010 4:34:25 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 6729
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
Note that the new .PNG graphics required that I create new .PNG versions of this mod. Also, since the .PNG graphics support the HUGE view, both the Numbers.png and h_Numbers.png files had to be modified.

Those modified files (as well as the modified Numbers.bmp file) are in use in both of my "Germany 1945" scenarios as well as my "Soviet Union 1941" scenario. So they can be found in the scenario-specific Graphics sub-folder for those scenarios - if you've updated to 3.4.

Here's the same HUGE shot as before, but this time using the .PNG graphics:




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