Game Balance in 1941 with new patch - does Soviet morale still have to be reduced?

[matt.buttsworth]

Firstly I would like to congratulate all those who have worked to create the new patch. It seems to have changed a game that with adjustment was great to play in summer/autumn/snow 1941 to one which could be wonderful to play right through till 1945.
My question is this.
To make 1.078 work my opponent and I have adjusted morale to make the Germans stronger in 1941 and avoid the unbalanced nature of that scenario which stopped the germans advancing beyond Smolensk.
By beginning the game with Soviets at morale 95 and Germans at 100 two gripping games have been played with teh axis player still encircling masses of Russian units right up to early September 1941. (with no exploits from either side). Moscow still seems very hard, Leningrad was held, but the advance in the south is very rapid.
My question is this. For good game balance where the germans can advance close to leningrad and Moscow in 1941 with a possibility of capturing one or both, is it still necessary to adjust morale before the game starts, or is a morale balance of 100/100 ideal.
The weakening of the blizzard rules seems fantastic.
I look forward to playing with the new patch.

Matthew

[swkuh]

Well said Matthew. About the "balance" factors 100/100 is, as I understand it, a parameter for the combat algorithms and other calculations. That value (100/100) is not an "ideal." For me, a little adjustment is no shame if it improves the play.

Appreciate your findings on morale (100/95.) I always like giving Soviets an edge in forts after Barbarossa, and favoring Axis in morale through '42. But most factors should swing to Soviets following Summer '43. My rule is always what makes an enjoyable game.

Little adjustments always (95/100, 100/95, etc.)

Appreciate knowing what others do.

[GamesaurusRex]

I have just completed turn 77 of a '41-'45 grand campaign PBEM game using v1.07.08. What this has taught me is that a setting of 105/97 is too much for the Soviets to ever defend. Soviet units were entering the game as low as 31 morale and melted away faster than you could build them. Germans swept the map like a virus.

I think the morale settings you use also depend upon whether you are human vs human or solo vs PC. The PC may need the help, while in human vs human the "assist" you use for solo may be too much.

As for the newest patch (v1.07.11 beta), I understand both the Russian morale build rate and the Blizzard '41 effect have been reduced greatly, so I would recommend starting at 100/100 in any PBEM game until you get a feel for how the other changes are going to affect play. This game is rather tricky to arrive at proper adjustments. I think you need to take into account all the variable elements, such as TOE variations and the combat casualty rates, that change during the game through the game years when you make your setting choice.

[carlkay58]

GamesaurusRex, in v1.07.08 any morale adjustment over 100 gave great benefits to the side. Many things other than just the morale base for the Axis are benefited.

[loki100]

I do think 100/95 seems plausible - it hits the Soviets quite hard in the Summer of 1941 and you don't get the CVs reported in some AARs ... but. This needs to be double checked against the reduced winter rule and I think needs an agreement for both sides to take a hit on the logistical values. And of course, as ever, it depends on relative competence of the players.

I've been playing a pair of scenarios using 75% logistics and I think that is too harsh for PBEM - though the effect is interesting - but it does convince me that <100% for both sides is a key way to dampen down the operational tempo

[GamesaurusRex]

Intersting loki100... My opponent and I are restarting the 41-45 scenario using the v1.07.11 beta this week to see how it plays out. We have not tried adjusting supply before. What exactly is the effect of the supply setting ? Is it a simple reduction of supply availability or something more complex ? [&:]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Intersting loki100... My opponent and I are restarting the 41-45 scenario using the v1.07.11 beta this week to see how it plays out. We have not tried adjusting supply before. What exactly is the effect of the supply setting ? Is it a simple reduction of supply availability or something more complex ? [&:]

The 75% has had a number of effects. We played the Road to Smolensk and it was interesting to watch the Axis (I played the Soviets) after turn 2 sort of attack for 2 turns and stall for one. Gave it a much more stop/start feel. My opponent reported it as heavily reduced MP and resupply problems (we'd also agreed only transports to fly supply missions).

We're doing the Moscow scenario (from Lost Battles) and as the Soviets I've been finding the impact much the same. I need to rest units much more and I'm always struggling for MP. What I've found is that after the December bonus runs out, this has become a serious contested battle, esp around Orel and that I've only been able to sustain the offensive in a few deliberately chosen sectors. To me, the overall impact is closer to reality - I've thrown the Germans back, I still sort of have the initiative (I need to do my feb turn) but I'm all too aware that the Red Army in December 1941 is not the super force reported in most AARs for the blizzard period.

SigUp is my opponent in both and we started this after one of the many realism vs game engine exploitation debates just to see if playing with the logistics gave the effect we both wanted to see (ie we both prefer PBEM but the consensus was becoming if you wanted a realistic game play the AI).

[swkuh]

Interesting report for supply parameter, but 75% is quite a deviation from "game normal!" I'll have to give it try.

[matt.buttsworth]

Report 17 October 1941 100/95 morale.
While people said the Russians would be swept away, I have found against an equally matched opponent, that I have stalled him at Leningrad, (first aim), he pocketed too many of my troops at Vyasma (realistic) which has weakened my defences, but he is far from Moscow and will not take it before blizzards.
I have destroyed 1700 German tank and caused 416,000 German casutalties, which has not weakened his tank force as much as I would like, but is close to historical.
I have lost huge numbers of tanks and will rebuild my tank force over winter.
In the south he has advance a lot, not advancing south of Rostov, but advancing as far as a line down from Vorozonesh, and a line south to the river curve to Rostov, but will not go much further.
He has captured the crimea, crossed the sea of azov, and as far as novorossick but has not captured it and will not advance much farther.

Many of my units are very weak and stopping the armoured forces before mosow is very difficult, but he will not reach it before blizzards and newly formed units are flooding in.

So I believe it is a very good game balance and a quite realistic German advance for 1941.
If I was a weaker defender he would have captured moscow and leningrad - good the Germans have a chance to win - and if he had not attacked and surrounded my troops so efficiently I would have more troops - particuarly the last offensive at vyasma to defend with.

So 100/95 is a good game with 1.07.8 but it is a great pity we did not have the option of a reduced blizzard with this game, as that would make it better still.
Hopefully the blizzards will not be too devastating for German forces and the game will still be good when they end.

Question? Is it still worth updated to the latest 1010.11 beta or whatever it is, or will that not help our game to be better over winter, in which case we will have to wait until we start a new game for the reduced winter option.

Matthew Buttsworth