7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

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ComradeP
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

The last shot in post 56 I believe is a 2k map. What did you think of the extra territory?

Difficult to tell, as only about 1/4 of the map was actually fought over. I appreciate having space for flanking moves or space in general as it makes a battle less predictable in terms of where the enemy attack is likely to come from/where the enemy units are most likely to be located, but as the objectives were clustered in only a small portion of the map, I don't really have a feeling for how a battle on a 2000x2000 map would play out if the objectives would be dispersed across the entire map.
Are you interested in an early war PBEM game at some point?

At some point, certainly.

There are, as I see it, a few problems in terms of balance with early war battles that might be a problem in PBEM's. If the Germans have veteran crews in Panzer III's and the Soviets have T-26's or BT's, the Soviets are likely to lose, because they're less likely to hit their targets and even if they do hit their targets, their hits are less likely to penetrate then the German return fire because the armour on the Soviet tanks is weaker relative to the firepower of the enemy.

However, if on a wide open map, the Germans would have Panzer III's and the Soviets a few T-34's and KV-1's, the Soviets are likely to win because the Germans don't really have the means to disable them if the Soviet player can keep his distance and knows what he's doing.

There's not really a middle ground, at least not with a core like mine. You're either in a battle where superior ROF and accuracy (through the elite bonus or medals/awards) will win you a battle with a Soviet 1930's tank force, or in a battle where you're close to powerless against the handful of 1940's tanks at normal combat ranges.

It's not that the battles I'm fighting are easy per se, but as soon as the Soviet tanks and AT guns are gone, which can happen quite quickly, the battle still essentially comes down to mopping up the infantry.

When I started the campaign, I was expecting the Soviets to outnumber me 2:1 or 3:1 in tanks in most battles. That would've made things quite challenging. However, I believe I've outnumbered the Soviets in tanks in every battle thus far, or have at least had the same amount of medium tanks.

If the Soviets outnumber the Germans, they have a chance even with 1930's tanks, as they can then use some tanks to draw German fire whilst other tanks, BT's for example, race across the map to the German flank.

Currently, due to my unit placement the AI is forced into medium to long range (by 1941 standards) tank duels, which they can essentially only lose with 1930's tanks.

As soon as the Soviets get more T-34's, the upgraded 1942 model 45mm AT gun or 76.2mm AT guns and heavy tanks, the picture changes completely, even if I'd be using the best Germany has to offer at that point (Panzer IVF/2's maybe and long barreled Panzer III's) because in that scenario, basically everything the Soviets have can knock out my tanks. Currently, those T-26's or BT's can mostly dream about knocking out my tanks. Even if I would not reload a battle as soon as one of my tanks is knocked out, I'd lose at most 2 or so out of 12.
I don't think they stand much of a chance at this point with the equipment and experience they are likely to have.

Out of curiosity: what's the chance the Soviets will get T-34's or KV's at this point, in July or August?
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
There's not really a middle ground, at least not with a core like mine. You're either in a battle where superior ROF and accuracy (through the elite bonus or medals/awards) will win you a battle with a Soviet 1930's tank force, or in a battle where you're close to powerless against the handful of 1940's tanks at normal combat ranges.

I think an early war battle with 50mm Panzer IIIs and 75mm Panzer IVs on the tank side against Soviet T-26/BTs and T-34s/KV-1 is quite interesting and balanced. The 3rd Panzer semi-random campaign does a good job of showing that too. Early war Soviet infantry really doesn't stand much of a chance against German Tanks or Infantry though.
As soon as the Soviets get more T-34's, the upgraded 1942 model 45mm AT gun or 76.2mm AT guns and heavy tanks, the picture changes completely, even if I'd be using the best Germany has to offer at that point (Panzer IVF/2's maybe and long barreled Panzer III's) because in that scenario, basically everything the Soviets have can knock out my tanks. Currently, those T-26's or BT's can mostly dream about knocking out my tanks. Even if I would not reload a battle as soon as one of my tanks is knocked out, I'd lose at most 2 or so out of 12.

I've played a ways into the 7th Panzer Campaign (finished a short version of it) and completed the 1st Panzer long campaign when I was testing Kharkov (and played well into it during Ostfront testing). There are certainly battles that will feel hopeless and be very difficult, but it is possible to get through. Once I got into Winter, there was no way for me to preserve my force. I came into Spring of 1942 at around 30-40% strength.
Out of curiosity: what's the chance the Soviets will get T-34's or KV's at this point, in July or August?

Fairly small. Starting in September, the chance starts to increase significantly.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Enigma6584 »

Beautiful stuff.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

Battle 9 went well after I made sure the Soviets couldn't see any of my units. The opening barrage on the first try was rather brutal as the Katyusha's managed to hit one of my tanks every single time.

Legendary victory, one tank suffered from track damage, another one was immobilized by a hit to the engine (the 2nd HQ tank is not really lucky, it suffered from track damage 4 times thus far, but it did get its Iron Cross 2nd Class in this battle). Both were recovered.

Image

I changed my unit placement a bit after taking this screenshot, but I forgot to take a new one. The Panzer II's were moved to the same area as my other tanks at the central flag. There's another flag further to the right, in the lower right corner of the map, but that one wasn't fought over and is as such not in the screenshot.

Red circles: T-26 M33's and a BA-10M.
Yellow circles: 45mm AT guns.
Blue circle: 122mm guns.

The plan was to let the infantry hold the western flag, whilst my tanks waited until the Soviet tanks started to move at which point 5 Panzer 38(t)E's would be ordered to move into the orchard and the 2 HQ Panzer 38(t)E's would move along the eastern edge of the orchard to hopefully catch the enemy as they were moving towards the western flag, exposing their sides to my tanks in the orchard. It was a bit risky, but it worked. I could've simply waited until they showed up near the flags, but this was more interesting. The plan worked as intended, the majority of the T-26 M33's were shot in the side of the hull as they moved along the orchard.

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My tanks move into the orchard to catch the enemy tanks in the flank as they move towards the western flag. This was a bit risky as my tanks started to attract the attention of a number of AT guns, but those were dealt with after the Soviet tanks were destroyed.

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A T-26 M33 brews up moments after the infantry riding on the tank was killed.

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The end. It seems there were two 122mm guns on the battlefield, but they presumably couldn't see anything. It was a short, intense battle.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze).

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 23 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39 and 1 BA-6.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 24 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 3 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 1 T-26 M33.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 16 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar crew, 2 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 24 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 2 DShK 39 crews and 3 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 21 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team and 2 T-26 M33's.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 22 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 1 F-22, 1 BA-10M, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 23 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33 and 1 45mm AT gun crew.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 17 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 11 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 13 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 13 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 16 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 1 Maxim crew.

Medal/award/ability bonanza for 2/3/2-25 Panzer/2: Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver). 1/3/2-25 Panzer/2 is the only tank without an Iron Cross currently.

The next battle takes place a few days after this one. The battle uses a map situated in Germany, as the text hovering above the map gives directions to Seelow and Berlin. Oddly, the village in the center is called Ludwigslust. That's not logical as the only Ludwigslust I know is located south of Schwerin, well to the northwest of Berlin (aside from it being peculiar that I'm already fighting in Germany, but that's due to the random maps I guess).

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The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.

Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Erik Rutins »

Congratulations again. The recovery rolls are definitely going your way as well. Nice flanking move through the orchard. Catching moving T-26s on the flank is a great way to guarantee a decisive result.
ORIGINAL: ComradeP
The next battle takes place a few days after this one. The battle uses a map situated in Germany, as the text hovering above the map gives directions to Seelow and Berlin. Oddly, the village in the center is called Ludwigslust. That's not logical as the only Ludwigslust I know is located south of Schwerin, well to the northwest of Berlin (aside from it being peculiar that I'm already fighting in Germany, but that's due to the random maps I guess).

Yes, whoops. We probably should make a version of that map without the landmarks for the random campaigns. We included some maps in the random campaign pool because they were too good to leave out, but apologies for the suspension of disbelief required in this case. I'll see if we can adjust that for the first update.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

The recovery rolls are definitely going your way as well.

Most of the time, only 1 track is hit. I've only had 1 immobilizing hit thus far, the one in this battle. The other hits where a tank was immobilized were due to 2 track hits.

I agree that the rolls are going my way, but I'd say it's realistic that tanks with track damage are recovered if a battle is won and the enemy is (presumably) driven off the field. No critical systems within the tank are damaged, after all.

In case you missed the edit to my previous post:
The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.

Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
I agree that the rolls are going my way, but I'd say it's realistic that tanks with track damage are recovered if a battle is won and the enemy is (presumably) driven off the field. No critical systems within the tank are damaged, after all.

That's very true and the chance of recovering a tank with just a track hit is very high by design. Recovering from a mobility hit is less likely though and eventually your tanks will get beat up enough that one of those track hits will result in a scrapped tank. I hope that doesn't happen for a long while though!
In case you missed the edit to my previous post: The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.

I would love to see a save file that duplicates that issue if you have it. We did make some changes to the line of sight system in the last few builds before release and it's certainly possible there is a bug or two remaining.
Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.

I noticed that as well, we're having a look at Area Fire for the first update. This and the LOS issue you mentioned could be connected as well.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

nd eventually your tanks will get beat up enough that one of those track hits will result in a scrapped tank

Yes, I already try to keep my tank movement within sensible limits, I won't charge across half the map in rush mode. I usually take my time, sort of role-playing that I also need to make sure my tanks get through a battle in good shape from a mechanical perspective.

As an aside: I seem to recall that the Germans frequently lost more tanks to breakdowns than to enemy fire in the early stages of Barbarossa, mostly due to the bad roads, overcomplicated design of vulnerable areas (such as interleaving road wheels) and lack of immediate availability of spare parts because there were both many parts and many different tank designs in use.

Of course, the Soviets had the same problem in many cases, as even though a tank like the T-34 was reliable, its components were often of a mediocre to bad quality and it still suffered from moving on bad roads. I recall a post from someone detailing the build-up for operation Star/Gallop, where the Tank corps and Tank brigades that were soon ordered to attack in the direction of Kharkov suffered from serious numbers of breakdowns, reducing their amount of operational tanks to a minimum.

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I would love to see a save file that duplicates that issue if you have it.

I'll keep an eye out for the issue and will try to get a save where it can be duplicated.
we're having a look at Area Fire for the first update

I've also had cases where, during targeting for area fire, a red line to a target area appears, but when I actually click on the target area a grey line appears, indicating it's an invalid target, even though the targeting line is red.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Mobius »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.
Do you have an example save of this?
And was this changed to area fire in the Orders phase or the Reaction phase, if you know?

I think some of these incidents are because the firer loses sight of the target. The relative sighting function takes into account the motion or the firing of the target. It that changes in the next phase the function recalculates the ability of the firer to see the target. So if the target is no longer moving or firing it may not be an acquired target any longer.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

Do you have an example save of this?

I'll try to get save where it can be repeated.
And was this changed to area fire in the Orders phase or the Reaction phase, if you know?

I'm not sure if it only happened during one type of phase or during both.
I think some of these incidents are because the firer loses sight of the target. The relative sighting function takes into account the motion or the firing of the target. It that changes in the next phase the function recalculates the ability of the firer to see the target. So if the target is no longer moving or firing it may not be an acquired target any longer.

The previous phase had already ended, as I was able to give orders for the new one, so the only way the target would be able to disappear is if a sighting check is made directly after the action part of a phase starts, which would be odd as you give orders based on what is known at the start of the phase. I've literally had targets disappear on me a split second after I started the phase, even though they were visible at the start of the phase.

I've also had instances where, without a unit selected, I could see less enemy units in total than the combined total of what all of my units could see, as on more than one occasion, one of my units could see targets that did not appear on the map without any units selected. Those targets also tended to disappear from sight a moment after starting the phase, unless they moved and were thus presumably also in LOS at the first sighting check.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Mobius »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
The previous phase had already ended, as I was able to give orders for the new one, so the only way the target would be able to disappear is if a sighting check is made directly after the action part of a phase starts, which would be odd as you give orders based on what is known at the start of the phase. I've literally had targets disappear on me a split second after I started the phase, even though they were visible at the start of the phase.
This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by spellir74 »

Great AAR.
test

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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.

Ah, so that's WAD then? It makes planning more difficult from time to time if targets disappear from sight directly after giving an order to engage it.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Mobius »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.
Ah, so that's WAD then? It makes planning more difficult from time to time if targets disappear from sight directly after giving an order to engage it.
Maybe they could change the sighting function to make it harder to lose sight of a target that the firer is fixated on. But it would be at the expense of sighting things to the sides and rear.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

Battle 10 was more like a massacre than a battle.

It featured the combat debut of the T-34/76 M41 (albeit only one), but unfortunately for the Soviets, also the combat debut of the FlaK 36 and the two 88mm's butchered the Soviet tanks before they had much of an idea as to what was going on. The T-34 was burning within 10 seconds on turn 1, the second 88mm shell being fired at it hit it and it brewed up. This is also the first battle where most enemy tanks brewed up, as opposed to being abandoned after suffering from damage or crew casualties. I guess that's due to the power of the 88mm.

The FlaK 36's destroyed all armoured vehicles, my tanks didn't score a single tank or AFV kill.

As an aside: the FlaK 36 has no unit description in its unit details.

My support consisted of 4 105mm's as artillery support, 2 FlaK 36's and 2 Sd.Kfz. 231's.

Time limit was 27 turns.

Legendary victory, no damage to my tanks.

Image

Red circles: 45mm AT guns.
Yellow circle: 2 BA-10M's.
Blue circle: T-34/76 M41.
Purple circle: 8 BT-7M's.

This was a risky deployment if the enemy had artillery (they had 120mm mortars and two Katyusha's according to the final review, but nothing showed up), but I wanted to try it. The 88's are in light woods and can see the battlefield areas where the Soviet tanks are, they're in an excellent overwatch position. They're the two units east of my tanks.

The plan was for the HQ tanks to move around the town on the eastern flank and head for the second flag on the other side of the map as soon as the BT-7M's were destroyed, whilst the other 10 tanks would move into the field in front of them first and then wheel towards the right and move towards the first flag, moving around the town just in case some or all of the buildings were occupied by infantry.

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The T-34 after a few seconds, it barely had time to turn around.

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What my tanks saw as they moved towards the road next to the setup area. I felt sorry for calling down a 105mm barrage on them.

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BT-7M's on turn 3, there's only 1 left.

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Turn 11. The HQ tanks will soon be held up by a number of AT Rifle squads in heavy woods to their right, whilst my other tanks move into the field. They spend the first few turns firing at all the infantry. My second artillery barrage of the battle is directed at the remaining AT gun in the woods beyond the field.

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The end on turn 20, it turned out that I didn't need to capture the second flag to win. The third barrage of the battle that I called in on the AT Rifle squads didn't have time to arrive.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze).

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 23 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 1 BA-6 and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 26 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 4 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 1 T-26 M33.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and Panzer Ace, killed 22 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar crew, 2 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew, 1 AT Rifle squad and 1 Sniper squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 29 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 2 DShK 39 crews and 3 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 22 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team and 2 T-26 M33's.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 27 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 1 F-22, 1 BA-10M, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 27 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33 and 2 45mm AT gun crews.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 19 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 12 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 14 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 14 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 16 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

Non-core:

105mm's /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 1 45mm AT gun, 1 Rifle squad and 1 Flamethrower squad.
/2: Killed 2 Sniper squads.
/3: Killed 1 Rifle squad, 1 76mm infantry gun.
/4: nothing.

88mm's /1: Killed 1 BA-10M, 3 BT-7M's.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 1 T34/76 M41, 1 BA-10M, 5 BT-7M's and 3 Rifle squads.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

Battle 11, fought on the 30th of August, went well, it wasn't a difficult one as the Soviets had little AT capabilities. It was their worst loss thus far, with only a 7% score.

Legendary victory, no damage to my tanks.

The Soviets did have an F-22 that could've caused plenty of damage, but I outflanked it and it was destroyed before it could cause damage.

Image

Red circle: 2 T-26 M33's.
Yellow circle: 4 BT-7's.
Blue circle: F-22.

The plan was to send all of my tanks towards the first objective, using the terrain as cover as the upper half of the map is higher than my starting position, which obstructs the Soviet view and then send the to attack the other flag from the rear. I ended up surprising both groups of tanks, which were positioned to deal with an attack coming up from the hill in front of them, whilst I was coming from their flank as I had already moved up the hill near the edge of the map. The HQ tanks cleaned up the infantry around the first objective, whilst the other tanks moved on.

Image

Turn 10. Left to right: the 2 HQ tanks, 5 Panzer IIB's and 5 Panzer 38(t)'s. I'm not entirely sure whether the last group of tanks had already destroyed the BT-7's at that point.

Image

Panzer 38(t)E's gunning down Soviet infantry.

Image

Panzer IIB's gunning down Soviet infantry.

Image

Foreground: Panzer IIB's dealing with the remaining Soviet infantry. Background: 5 Panzer 38(t)E's that are about to face the F-22 and will soon move into the woods to the last flag. They were charged by Soviet infantry, but the infantry was all cut down by machineguns.

Image

The end on turn 25.

With ammo levels at 87%, running out of ammunition is a bigger problem in battles like this than the Soviet defenses.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold), killed 31 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 1 BA-6 and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 33 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 4 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 2 T-26 M33's.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and Panzer Ace, killed 23 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 3 50mm mortar crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew, 1 AT Rifle squad and 1 Sniper squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 38 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 3 DShK 39 crews and 5 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 26 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team, 2 T-26 M33's and 2 50mm mortar teams.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 30 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 F-22's, 2 BA-10M's, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 33 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar team and 2 BT-7's.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 12 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 16 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 18 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 19 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

The next battle also takes place on the 30th of August (busy day for 7th Panzer). I have Stuka and mortar support, and a T-34/76 M41 is visible during setup, so there are probably more. Let's hope the Stuka pilots are more interested in hitting tanks in this battle than in previous battles (preferably not my own tanks either).

In 11 battles, about a Rifle division worth of Rifle squads has been destroyed.
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Mad Russian
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Mad Russian »

Are you playing these as they come? Blind? A one time play through?

Good Hunting.

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ComradeP
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by ComradeP »

If a tank is destroyed or a crew member is injured, I'll restart the battle or go back to a save near the start of the battle. That isn't necessary in all battles though, I primarily need to reload when there's artillery involved.

The last two battles generally just went well from the start, though, no restarting required.

I know that the main challenge will come in autumn/winter and that these battles are still in the happy times. It's during those battles when battles become a real puzzle, because my forces are not equipped well enough to deal with T-34's at normal combat ranges.

As I detailed before, there just isn't much the Soviets can do to stop me when their tanks and AT assets are knocked out and in many battles, those are knocked out in just a few turns.

If I would've played this without reloading when I suffered core losses, I would've lost about half a dozen core tanks now, mostly due to artillery.

As said before, to me every battle is a puzzle, and as I'm a perfectionist, I'll try to find the best solution to the puzzle. In tactical games, the challenge for me is not winning, but winning without losses. Thus far, due to the Soviet unit and equipment quality, that hasn't been too difficult thus far, but that will all change soon.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by Mad Russian »

That works. I was just thinking these battles were way too easy if you keep getting Legendary Victories without taking ANY losses.

For me the perfection would come at the end. I would play it all the way through with actual losses then try to best that score in later attempts. But we all play differently and PCO caters to that.

I wish you luck in the later battles.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

Post by junk2drive »

As an aside: the FlaK 36 has no unit description in its unit details.

Fixed for update.
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