Nightmare

[westminster]

Having trouble with scenario. I knock out the SA-5 site and try to get all the radar sites. My B-2 bomber still gets shot down when it reaches Harden Target.

[Eboreg]

The SA-5 site isn't really a problem since you're using stealth aircraft almost exclusively. The real problem is the 4 KN-06 sites hidden around the area. You can find them with either you U-2's or F-22's radar and use the JASSMs from your B-1s to take them out.

[westminster]

The U-2 gets shot down easy. I did a fighter sweep over North Korea. I knocked out all the radar. I sent in the B-2's, but they need more bombs to take out all the bunkers.

[Eboreg]

You know what? A picture is worth 1,000 words and there are over 10,000 pictures in a video

[davedashftw]

With the new updates to how the game works, this mission is kind of impossible.

SAMs used to rely on EW and radar sites, but now they toggle their own radar on/off. You can take out the EW and Radar sites with cruise missiles, but it doesn't matter.

You cannot get the U-2's through the initial SAM umbrella even with radar sites taken out.

Also the B2 is meant to have a similar RCS to the F-22 (in fact it has all aspect stealth, the F-22 doesn't), but the F-22 can fly over the entire battle space with radar on and never get shot at, yet the B-2's get taken down easily. I get that stealth can be detected by lower frequency radar, but there's a difference between tracking and targeting. How are they being locked on and targeted with the same RCS (and superior aspect stealth) of a F-22 yet no radar emissions?

EDIT: The new update contains aspect RCS and other capabilities. Let's hope the B-2 can actually do its stated mission after these updates.

[BDukes]

With the new updates to how the game works, this mission is kind of impossible.

SAMs used to rely on EW and radar sites, but now they toggle their own radar on/off. You can take out the EW and Radar sites with cruise missiles, but it doesn't matter.

You cannot get the U-2's through the initial SAM umbrella even with radar sites taken out.

Also the B2 is meant to have a similar RCS to the F-22 (in fact it has all aspect stealth, the F-22 doesn't), but the F-22 can fly over the entire battle space with radar on and never get shot at, yet the B-2's get taken down easily. I get that stealth can be detected by lower frequency radar, but there's a difference between tracking and targeting. How are they being locked on and targeted with the same RCS (and superior aspect stealth) of a F-22 yet no radar emissions?

EDIT: The new update contains aspect RCS and other capabilities. Let's hope the B-2 can actually do its stated mission after these updates.

The sensors on the U2-s don't require you to penetrate. If you want to you can limit your exposure. Pretty sure you're just looking for ESM hits and to be honest you'll likely get the same kind of info with the other aircraft.

You've got to watch the side aspect of the B-2 for sure. I'd definitely use the other aircraft to pave the way.

Best of luck next time. I'm interested in seeing how it all shakes out as well.

M

[Kushan04]

SAMs used to rely on EW and radar sites, but now they toggle their own radar on/off. You can take out the EW and Radar sites with cruise missiles, but it doesn't matter.

Radar blinking is not turned on in the scenario. SAMS are simply only turning on their radars when they are firing, that's been in the sim for years, and was how the scenario was originally setup.

[davedashftw]

I have tested again, and it does appear like you can pick up a couple of the KN-06's without penetrating with your U2s.

Also flying the F-22's directly over them does result in them getting shot down, although I remain very sceptical about their ability to track and shoot down a B-2.

We know that the S-300 and possible even S-400 systems did not detect Israeli F-35's over Syria. Based on known factors, the B-2 should be more stealthy than an F-35, due to its flying wing design and the fact it has both high and low frequency RAM.

I feel overall air defence is too capable in this game vs reality, and that includes western systems. Both in terms of decision making and battlefield clarity, and ability to detect AND track stealth aircraft.

[BDukes]

I have tested again, and it does appear like you can pick up a couple of the KN-06's without penetrating with your U2s.

Also flying the F-22's directly over them does result in them getting shot down, although I remain very sceptical about their ability to track and shoot down a B-2.

We know that the S-300 and possible even S-400 systems did not detect Israeli F-35's over Syria. Based on known factors, the B-2 should be more stealthy than an F-35, due to its flying wing design and the fact it has both high and low frequency RAM.

I feel overall air defence is too capable in this game vs reality, and that includes western systems. Both in terms of decision making and battlefield clarity, and ability to detect AND track stealth aircraft.

Ok thanks. I'll factor this stuff into my scenario designs in the future. Thank you!

Mike

[Dimitris]

I feel overall air defence is too capable in this game vs reality, and that includes western systems. Both in terms of decision making and battlefield clarity, and ability to detect AND track stealth aircraft.

Instead of "by default" blaming the game, how about opening a suitable save in ScenEdit, switching to the enemy side and observing exactly how the enemy's kill-chain vs the B-2s unfolded out?

And then maybe sharing that save with the rest of us?

Maybe something's off, maybe not. Won't know till you (and we) look.

[Dimitris]

We know that the S-300 and possible even S-400 systems did not detect Israeli F-35's over Syria.

We know almost nothing about the context of that (and we don't know for sure if that happened or not).

Context is everything. In the right conditions, Miss Marple can punch out Ivan Drago.

[thewood1]

"Miss Marple can punch out Ivan Drago"

Has to be one of the most random things I've seen on this site.

[davedashftw]

We know that the S-300 and possible even S-400 systems did not detect Israeli F-35's over Syria.

We know almost nothing about the context of that (and we don't know for sure if that happened or not).

Context is everything. In the right conditions, Miss Marple can punch out Ivan Drago.

It's all about looking at the outcomes and results.

I have been testing the latest BETA and things seem much improved. Stealth, IADS, etc all seem to perform much more in line with what we see in real life. Proficiency too, which seemed to matter very little previously.

Although I still think to have a conflict simulator vs weapon platform simulator, we need some built in options to the engine around fog of war and communication networks. For example, when selecting a unit, it would be nice to see enemy targets that only it knows about (similar to how Combat Mission does it). This could be an option for those who want more realistic command and control simulation.

[Dimitris]

For example, when selecting a unit, it would be nice to see enemy targets that only it knows about (similar to how Combat Mission does it). This could be an option for those who want more realistic command and control simulation.

IIRC this is already included. If you select a friendly unit and go into isolated-POV view, it distinguishes the contacts it itself is tracking (extra caret around the contact icons) vs the "off-board" ones it receives from the parent-side comms network.

[davedashftw]

For example, when selecting a unit, it would be nice to see enemy targets that only it knows about (similar to how Combat Mission does it). This could be an option for those who want more realistic command and control simulation.

IIRC this is already included. If you select a friendly unit and go into isolated-POV view, it distinguishes the contacts it itself is tracking (extra caret around the contact icons) vs the "off-board" ones it receives from the parent-side comms network.

Ok cool that's great a level of C&C is simulated, I'll do more testing to ensure I notice that properly.