Soviet Rifle Squad 43 Manpower increase to 11Men [ID:797]

[Wiedrock]

The normal Rifle Squad size changes in 09/1943 from 9Men to 11Men.

Rifle Squad 43.png (289.08 KiB) Viewed 406 times

Some interesting note to history I recently came across.
There were plenty of different Reduced Strenght TOEs the Soviets used, starting from mid 1943 and going till the end of the war (Soviets preferred to built more and more Gun/Mortar/AFV units, so manpower for Rifle Units was reduced vastly). So there were TOEs for 4k-6k Rifle Divisions. Squad sizes went often down to 6-8 Men. Meanwhile in game there's 32k Corps with 3x5k Brigades (nothing reduced) assigned with 11Men Squads.
Side note to the increase to 11 Men squads in late 1943 (in game) - which historically can only be found in a single "Reduced strength TOE from Aug 1943", caused someone to decide to use 11Men Squads starting from 09/1943 for Soviets in WITE2. But this increase of Squad size was bound to less Squads so a Reduction of manpower density per Division/Corps/Regiment.

The only official quote I found in the RAH:

With insufficient replacements available to keep these units up to full strength, the Stavka adopted the only other recourse available: an official acceptance of reduced size. On 22 August 1943 a ‘reduced strength' variant of the basic infantry regiment TO&E (No. 04/550) was authorized. Under this new table the basic building block, the rifle platoon, was reduced to the platoon leader and three squads, each of a sergeant and ten privates. Each squad was provided with a single light machine gun, to give the rifle company a total of nine such weapons, compared to eighteen in the original organization. The company's 50mm mortar platoon was deleted entirely from the organization, although the machine gun section remained. At the battalion level the machine gun company and the mortar company were both reduced to two platoons (six weapons), while less significant changes were made to the regimental elements. In sum, the infantry regiment was reduced from its original strength of 2,443 men to 2,017.

Which explicitly states that this change is related to a reduction in Manpower per Regiment (and in return in Div/Corps size).
Here some Reduced strenght examples from June 1943. As I understand this, there were three possible new arrangements. One with 9Men Squad and two others with 7Men Squads.
Here another proposed Reduced TOE from 23 Nov 1943. There the Squads went down to 6Men. Google translated it, I added notes. Correct my translation if there's something wrong with it.

Nov_1943_Reduced TOE.png (1.36 MiB) Viewed 406 times

Sadly I couldn't find the TOE/order of the 22 Aug 1943 TOE change which supposedly caused the 11Men Squads. Every citing of this Document (Red Army Handbook and also found in 2 Forums) never shows it/links it. But as the other ones may show there's no reason to increase the whole Soviet Army to use 11Men Squads judging from the things I know so far.

Following an example. As I already pointed out the SMG Squads themselves have too many Men per Squad too. So this goes on top of this Threads subject. As you can see, using this late war Corps structure, there is up to 10% too much CV when assuming the Reduction of SMG Squad manpower sizes to 9Men as a general thing. If not then it's still about 8% too much CV.
Niehorsters idea of the Rifle Company in 1944

reworked squads1.png (475.83 KiB) Viewed 406 times

Further note, the basic Rifle Squad 43 is also used for the late TOEs of Mot/Mech Formations, before that they use the 9Men Rifle Squad (+) with 2LMGs (which also may not be 100% correct since some Sources state 8Men Squads). Not sure in how far that reflects reality, both in increase of Manpower per Squad and in simultaneously reducing the firepower by reducing the LMGs.
And it continues with Tank Brigades which used 9Men [1LMG] but in game suddenly use 11Men Squads.
Also see: http://www.bayonetstrength.uk/RedArmy/RedArmyorgs.htm

[Wiedrock]

Sadly I couldn't find the TOE/order of the 22 Aug 1943 TOE change which supposedly caused the 11Men Squads. Every citing of this Document (Red Army Handbook and also found in 2 Forums) never shows it/links it. But as the other ones may show there's no reason to increase the whole Soviet Army to use 11Men Squads judging from the things I know so far.

Here someone listed the stated TOE. Counting the Squads you get
11Men x 3Sq x 3Pl x 3Co x 3Bat x 3Reg = 2673Men in 243Sq
while ingame we are at least at:

• 11Men x 180Sq = 1980Men
• 9Men x 144Sq = 1296Men

= 3276Men in at least 324Sq

Nothing reduced. Just increased Men in Squads by ~22.5% compared to the reduced TOE and by ~12.3% compared to keeping the 9Men Squads in normal TOEs.

Here another proposed Reduced TOE from 23 Nov 1943. There the Squads went down to 6Men. Google translated it, I added notes. Correct my translation if there's something wrong with it.

Here someone listed a similar change for Summer 1944.

[Wiedrock]

Motorized Rifle battalion (Bech Brigade)
These Rifle Squads actually only had 8Men, as can be seen in this posts Chart. This matches with numbers of other sources, like this one and that one.

In game those Squads are 9Men Rifle Squad (+). Those change in 1944 to Rifle Squad 43. Here a comparison what's going on, note the decrease in Support and the increase in Manpower in Squads.

TOE-Support to Squad.png (257.13 KiB) Viewed 314 times

There are plenty of other TOEs showing the same behaviour of reducing Support Elements once the Rifle Squad 43 (11Men) gets introduced into their TOEs.

Infantry/Rifle:
Following an example of a Rifle Corps starting to change to the Rifle Squad 43 already in 1943 (since the 42-Squad is obsolete/scrapped). Meaning the Corps size will eventuelly increase by 540*2=1080Men in Squads.
Additionally we can observe the same "Support fall off" in the TOE once the Rifle Squad 43 (11Men) is officially introduced in summer of 1944.

Rifle Corps_1Men.png (491.97 KiB) Viewed 314 times

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Those are just two of many examples where this 9Men -> 11Men change suddenly kicks out hundrets/up to thousands of Support Manpower and converts them into Squad Manpower. For sure there was restructuring of TOEs, but as pointed out the 11Men for multiple reasons/in multiple TOEs are simply in the wrong place. Especially when applied to all TOEs and not the Reduced TOEs which are currently not being used.

[Wiedrock]

Found the Reduced Strength TOE (BArch RH 2/1283, page 226) for the Rifle Division which causes the Decision to go to 11Men Squads (by the Devs, for all Divisions).
Interestingly the SMG Squad gets reduced from 10 to 8 Men.
It's a translation from a captured Document, so no intel, only minor Soviet math issues mentioned by the translator.

It remains, too large Squads or too many Squads, therefore too few Support - ignoring the additionally reduced sized SMG Squads and not looking at anything else...