Finding the right ground scale for a battalion-level game depends on the area of operation. Does the battle occur in the jungle or in the desert...or somewhere in between? In our case--the steppes of the USSR in 1942. My original thought was that 1600 meters per hex (half of Desert War scale) might address player concerns with the number of units per hex/stacking/map-crowding. The Eastern Front can get REAL crowded.
Looking at an actual historical situation on the Eastern Front reveals the need for a different ground scale. To replicate actual attack frontages, 500 meters per battalion is realistic; 1000+ meters per battalion in defense is realistic. Sooo...I think the ground scale of choice right now is 1000 meters per hex with a maximum stacking of two battalion (or their equivalents).
This image shows what I mean. Each hex = 1000m with a stacking limit of one battalion and one company...not enough per hex to allow for historical densities. This is a work in progress...another evolution towards attaining the goal of "about right".
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We are at 1 kilometer per hex right now in the East Front game development...that's 1.6 hexes per mile. Desert War was ~ .31 hexes per mile (2 miles/3.2 kilometers per hex). At 1-kilometer per hex, stacks are still too high given the typical troop concentrations on the Eastern Front.
So...What if the scale was 500 meters per hex? Would you still want to play the game? At 500 meters per hex--we have definitely left the operational world of World War II. But stacking levels of one or two units (one battalion + one company) per hex is achievable, addresses historical norms and meets user preferences. But...making the map bigger to reduce stacking means decreasing the hex scale below 1 kilometer per hex--which creeps into direct fire range questions. In addition, is "Grand Tactical" instead of operational-level OK? There ain't no operational campaign in a Grand Tactical game.
I can justify going down to 500 meters per hex without incorporating any "direct fire" rules. 500 meters was about the average range for effective tank engagements in WWII; 500 meters is also about the maximum range for effective infantry engagements. Hitting anything using a rifle at that range requires a very skilled marksman--suppression is the cost to enter a zone of control. Close assault: sub-machine guns, grenades, satchel charges, flame-throwers...are engagements under 100 meters. Machine-guns? A modern 7.62mm machine-gun can reach out to 900 meters before tracer burnout...probably a smidge less in WWII--that's max range. But it is also prudent to hold-fire and conceal machine gun locations until the riflemen open fire...else the enemy sees where the MGs are and takes them out with concentrated mortar or artillery fire.
But...Is "Grand Tactical" what players want? Or is operational level the preferred way ahead? For the Russian Front--at Grand Tactical Level you can have battalions as the typical ground unit; however, an Operational Level campaign requires regiments or divisions to do justice to the subject.
I've just finished playing an Eastern Front scenario at 1 kilometer per hex and have to say the scale STINKS. 1 kilometer per hex is "lost in the woods" of an operational no-where. Going down to 500 meters per hex will result in a bigger NOWHERE with no better reason. Wandering aboout...but I do know what the operational-level is. More to follow...
Alles klar? A Soviet corps vs two Axis regiments. This is the typical map size and the opposing forces at 1km per hex. Is this the experience you want next game?
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Alles klar? A Soviet corps vs two Axis regiments. This is the typical map size and the opposing forces at 1km per hex. Is this the experience you want next game?
After reading this I'm not sure anymore. Looks kind of like WW1.... is there any reason not to consider 1500 or even 2000 meters per hex?
Or maybe go up to regiment level instead of battalion?
Or perhaps a (partial) combination of both?
Lots to think about here...…..[X(]
Rob.
So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)
ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
Looks kind of like WW1.... is there any reason not to consider 1500 or even 2000 meters per hex?
Or maybe go up to regiment level instead of battalion?
Or perhaps a (partial) combination of both?
Current plan is to test regimental level at the original Desert War scale of two miles per hex (3200 meters).
Here's a comparison of the same scenario battle area using different hex and unit scales. Image on the left is battalion scale at 1000 meters per hex. Image on the right is regimental scale at 3200 meters per hex. Given the high unit densities found on the Eastern Front, employing regimental-sized units will allow the game to explore the operational level while minimizing unitus maximus clickitum.
I think below 2500 meters per hex, the regimental system starts to get dicey. At 2000 meters per hex, the German regiments in this scenario can't cover two of the five hexes with zones of control (the historical units covered a 10km front). At 1500 meters per hex, the problem gets worse. The ZOCs of these units will cover three hexes (4500 meters) leaving 5,500 meters uncovered (3.6 hexes). To do the historical job, the regiments would have to break down into battalions...which means more units on the map that are not regiments (regimental HQ, artillery, AT, AA, combat engineer, etc.)...which is against the idea of fewer units, smaller stacks, and operational level. I think 2500 meters is the "All-in" for a regimental system.
Regimental System Parameters
* 2500 meters per hex
* Regimental level means all units in-game are regiments/brigades except the following:
- Machine-gun Battalions (Corps/Army; not divisional)
- Assault gun Battalions
- Bridging Engineers Companies (Corps/Army; not divisional)
- Assault Engineers Battalions (Corps/Army; not divisional)
- Antiaircraft Battalions (Corps/Army; not divisional)
- Antitank Battalion (Corps/Army; not divisional)
* The combat power of all divisional assets (artillery, combat engineers, antiaircraft, antitank, reconnaissance, etc.) is totaled, split up and rolled into the two or three regiments/brigades that comprise a division.
* Players assign Supplies by the Corps (Germans) and Army (Soviets)...there are no division or regiment HQs units in the regimental system.
* Organizational counter colors will be assigned by corps/army with divisional counter names.
* There are no platoon-sized units: limited company-sized units (bridge engineers).
* There are no ground reconnaissance units unless they are corps or army asset. Reconnaissance capability (strength and range) of regiments is increased.
* There will be 3-turns per day (2 day/1 night). The operational level needs more days per week to develop as opposed to turns per day at the tactical level. Night capable units are introduced.
* Movement Factors are increased to allow for the ground scale change:
- Infantry - 10
- Cavalry - 12
- Motorized/Mech/Armor - 18
- Air Assets will represent air groups (not squadrons).
We are nearly decided. Alpha testing will school us the answer.
It seems to me that the scale should conform to the specific scenario scope. If it is the whole operation Uranus, then 2500 m per hex. If it is Operation Winter Storm, which is a smaller snapshot of the map, then a 1,000m per hex may be appropriate. Is it possible to have both a 2,500m per hex map, a 1,000m per hex map, and possibly a 500m per hex map for scenarios inside the city of Stalingrad? Because the East Front is so much more gigantic in geographic scale then the Desert Front, it may require up to 3 map scales for specific scenarios.
Our experience with Desert War players is that a smaller, shorter, simpler set of scenarios with a campaign is better. On the other hand, the editor can handle all three of the scales you mention. 2500 meters per hex is the current pivot pin.
OBTW, I'm not ditching the idea of 500 meter or 1000 meter hexes or battalion-centric games. That's the level that I (and my ALPHA testers) like best...it just isn't working on the Eastern Front. Meaningful operational things only happen on the Russian Front if they involve an army or two. Battalion-sized units (or less) should be fun with Operations Market/Garden, Wacht Am Rhein, Norway, Sicily, Salerno, Crete,...and Modern...Korea 1950-51, NATO 80-85, Arab-Israeli Wars, etc. Smaller, shorter, simpler with a campaign.
I just learned about this boardgame system (Overlord/The Killing Ground) by New England Games. This is the ground scale we are using in our Stalingrad game:
Overlord/The Killing Ground looks pretty good. Anybody have any experience with it? What are your thoughts?
The games are sold out but the next game--is right up my alley.
I would like as small a hex size as possible. A game centred around Stalingrad where the city takes up hardly any hexes kind of defeats the premise of the battle in my opinion. I'd like the city to be able to be broken down into three seperate parts. That means a good two or even three hexes each for the Factories, then for centre with Mamav Kurgen and the main city central shopping district with the Unimag Building and pavlovs house etc, then finally the southern end starting with the Grain Elevator and the rest of the city. So that's min of around six upto nine hexes to make it feel right and to give a different feel to each part of the battle for the city. I say around 1.5 miles per hex, max 2 miles.
2500 meters per hex supports the entire campaign - from the issuance of Fuehrer Directive 45 to the fall of the Stalingrad Pocket. The battle for the city will be addressed using a scale that best supports the city fight narrative while minimizing the tedium of time and the size of stacks.
How many hexes will the city take up then? As I said would be great if different parts of the city where more difficult to crack as in real life. The factories being the most difficult of all. The southern city the easiest the center should feel at first anyway shifting from one side to the other or at least the game is able to portray that.
ORIGINAL: wodin
...How many hexes will the city take up then?...
To be determined based on testing results of three different ground scales (400, 500, & 600 meters per hex). At 400 meters per hex, the dimensions of Stalingrad from Spartakovka in the north to Beketovka is the south is ~79 hexes long by 16 hexes wide (at the widest point).
Christmas Vacation is over. Back to work. Tile-based map for Stalingrad @ 500meters per hex is done. Working on the image-based map from this tile map...
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