Less of a game, more like work

[NeverMan]

I know this has been brought up before but this game almost always feels more like work then fun. Why?

Well, for starters, I had to download 18 files today from google groups BEFORE I could do my turn. I spent about 1/5 of the time playing and the other 4/5 downloading and managing (unzipping, etc) the files.

I understand this isn't a priority.

[Grognot]

FWIW, the file transfer can be eased via something like Dropbox.

[Marshall Ellis]

I've got the autozip feature coded as well as the auto email feature which should help here BUT I've not tested them enough yet to release since I'm a little behind on some issues.

[StCyr]

I'm a little behind on some issues

LOL! No, no Marshal, don´t worry, just go on with your great work...

[gazfun]

Life is tough isnt it mate [:)]

[pzgndr]

Life is tough isnt it mate

Sure must be. "My toy doesn't work right!" [8|]

[StCyr]

exactly - the toy does not work. I am glad we agree [;)]

But does that make life tough ? Take it easy [:)]

[pzgndr]

Exactly.  In real life, I pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes for a stupid government that doesn't work and doesn't care.  I don't have any patience left over to whine about a game, a toy for entertainment, which is in fact playable and entertaining, despite its faults. [;)]

[borner]

Ah pz, I missed you while I was away. seriously though, why can't the game work by simply loading the last file, instead of 18 like neverman says. I have never understood this.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: borner

Ah pz, I missed you while I was away. seriously though, why can't the game work by simply loading the last file, instead of 18 like neverman says. I have never understood this.

Perhaps it is poor phrasing, I don't know what you don't understand?

This was explained by Marshall in a thread you started back in November.

tm.asp?m=2283110

Start with your first post and try reading it again and maybe you will understand the "why".

If not, maybe you have to phrase what you don't understand another way so someone can try to explain it to you. I've been frustrated before when I didn't understand something, sooner or later it will click, when it does you will know.

[borner]

all I remember is that marshall said it would not allow you to see the moves of those before you. In situations where the player does not care, I still do not understand why the game cannot go forward from the latest file, instead of all having to be loaded.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: borner

all I remember is that marshall said it would not allow you to see the moves of those before you. In situations where the player does not care, I still do not understand why the game cannot go forward from the latest file, instead of all having to be loaded.

* The answer as of today is becasue the game needs all the files to move foward.
* The quote below was taken from the thread you started in November that I asked you to re-read. Basically, if he figures out a way to do this he will look at it.

Is this now understandable?

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Not today.
I'm not real sure how I could go with less files (One file per player per phase) without hampering viewable info.
At this point, I'm saying no-can-do but if a method hits me in the face then I will always look at it...

[borner]

Yes, Flippie, that is basically my point. Marshall says you loose viewable info, but over a stretch of phases... IE, Prussia loading all the naval phases..... where you do not care about what happened, why thcan't we go forward by either loading everything or loading the last file? I appreciate your attempted input to my question - if that is honestly your intent, but I do not think it is as silly a quesiton as you seem to think it is. Also, Marshall answers that he cannot do it, but not really why he can't. He just states what info would be lost. I very different thing in my opinion.

[wworld7]

I didn't think it was silly, I thought you didn't understand. As I have said I have been stuck not understanding things before, but once I did often it seemed silly that "I" didn't understand from the beginning.

Perhaps Marshall can phrase things in a better way for you. But from my experiance, without understanding the code in a program (at its roots) it is difficult to grasp why what seems to be an easy idea cannot be changed without signifigant effort involved.

You asked and I tried to help. If I can help in the future I will. But with this issue, to explain the nuts and bolts of the program to you requires more info than anyone but Marshall has available. From re-reading your November thread last night I believe Marshall said somewhere that he was concentrating on areas other then PBEM for a while, so I am unsure how this effects getting a more detailed answer to your question.

[borner]

my apologies, I took your replies too personally. It's actually Neverman's question, and one I happen to agree with. If it cannot be done, given the way the code of the game is written, fine. I can understand that. However, if the concern is just that the recap of what happened between loaded turns, in some cases i think a lot of players would be willing to make the trade off. Simply put, if it is possible, it would be nice to have the option.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: borner
my apologies, I took your replies too personally.

No apology needed.

ORIGINAL: borner
It's actually Neverman's question, and one I happen to agree with. If it cannot be done, given the way the code of the game is written, fine. I can understand that.

Only Marshall can say if it cannot be done, which he has not said. What he has said is changing it is not as simple people think it is, and if possible at all it would require major effort. And that at present this issue isn't at the top of the list of current priorities.

ORIGINAL: borner
However, if the concern is just that the recap of what happened between loaded turns, in some cases i think a lot of players would be willing to make the trade off. Simply put, if it is possible, it would be nice to have the option.

Creating this as an option is more difficult than just changing how the game works now (Options/giving choices are always more work). It may be possible (we don't know), but if it is than it comes down to where resources will be expended, and that, for now, Marshall has answered when he said he was working on other areas at present (ie: back in November).

I hope my points are clear, I figure anything that can save Marshall time allows him more time to work on the game.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: borner

Ah pz, I missed you while I was away. seriously though, why can't the game work by simply loading the last file, instead of 18 like neverman says. I have never understood this.

Simple answer: poor coding!

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: borner

Ah pz, I missed you while I was away. seriously though, why can't the game work by simply loading the last file, instead of 18 like neverman says. I have never understood this.

Simple answer: poor coding!

Neverman,

I accept that you like throwing out your little digs at this program but it does come across as childish. The day you aquire the rights to the code and actually study it is when you could prove it is poor coding (or come to find out you are wrong). You can (and have) say you don't like the program and be within your knowledge, but anything more in depth is guess work on your part and is not something a mature person would try to imply as fact. As an example, not all variables can be controlled, a program can be written perfectly and still not get the desired result, in my opinion you cannot or don't want to grasp this fact. Which is why I tend to chuckle when I see you comment on the code, as it has little worth beyond making me laugh. But, laughing is a good thing most of the time.[:D][:D][:D]

[Marshall Ellis]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: borner

Ah pz, I missed you while I was away. seriously though, why can't the game work by simply loading the last file, instead of 18 like neverman says. I have never understood this.

Simple answer: poor coding!

OUCH!
That's it Neverman! You're off my Xmas card list AGAIN! LOL!

FYI...
The files are not cumulative. They are turn files of a certain player. It was designed this way because the original engine design was simultaneous move so it could not be cumulative.

Actually, I kind of like this portion of the "poor" coding since it was flexible enough allow me to change Diplomacy, Economic to simulatenous execution and still keep the IGO UGO format of the move phases BUT that's only my opinion ... what do I know? LOL!

[pzgndr]

Which is why I tend to chuckle when I see you comment on the code, as it has little worth beyond making me laugh.

Ditto. I'm still waiting to see Neverman's open source EiA project on SourceForge.net or someplace comparable. Based on all of his pompous assertions, he should have been able to single-handedly program a bug-free version of a perfect conversion of the original boardgame by now. Put up or shut up? Still waiting... [8|]

Curious how VASSAL handles all of the file exchanges for its EiA module. That's the benchmark standard. Is EiANW better or not in terms of speed and file handling? It would sound so much more mature to say something like "It takes me such-and-such time to play a turn in VASSAL but only umptyfratz time to play a turn in EiANW." Faster is better of course. Marshall has acknowledged file handling as something to enhance, which would be good.