Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

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Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

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The operational environment of MARKET-GARDEN is quite interesting. The naval evacuation of German units of the 15th Armee from the Breskan Pocket (German units shown on the left side of the map), north to the Walcheren peninsula practically insured the defeat of Operation Market-Garden. An advance due north from Antwerp by the Allies shortly after the capture of this port city would have greatly improved the chances of success of Market-Garden--by cutting off the Walcheren peninsula. Why didn't this happen? Could be the topic of a scenario...
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Bridges Too Far...

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Just finished inputting all the rivers, roads, and bridges around Market-Garden's objective of Zwolle. There are a lot of bridges that are just a bit more far on the way to the North German Plain. This is clearly going to be a fun challenge to get "up, over, and beyond" the Rhine.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

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We have finished coding the WW2 Road Map of the MARKET-GARDEN area of operation...now it's time for the detailed terrain analysis/interpretation...
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by zakblood »

i have and own almost every single engine of this battle over 30+ years of gaming so look forward to seeing how its done thanks for doing it
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by zakblood »

what if options for me makes this a epic battle that can and does still interest many who try and fail and keep trying it over and over again

1) British Landing Zones Were Too Far from Arnhem, so adjust as an option
2) The Allies Had Too Few Transport Aircraft, again adjust
3) Bad Weather Hampered Landings, yep, you have the idea now, alter slightly, better or totally clear and no wind options
4) Radio Communications Failed. so again give 3 types of improved, full or intermittant options
5) Allied Ground Troops Advanced Slowly, no comment needed on this as options can vary slightly to rapid with improved results, but higher losses etc
6) Role of SS Panzer Divisions, delayed, not deployed in area etc etc

each can be of 1 or a max of 3 options for the allies with also altering the German side for random events if you wish :twisted: :roll:
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by zakblood »

for me, there are 2 versions so far released that did it right in my book and are still played by me, both DOS versions, as anything later were either to complecated or i didn't get on with the UI or engine or options given
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these are alternate drops zones and placements with allied options altered, small changes that alter the outcome slightly, larger ones like removing or delaying the SS in the area effect the gameplay too much and really alter the outcome, where as milder weather, more planes and different drop zone, only effect the outcome by a smaller amount, radio's don't come into play with communication on the DOS versions so while later engine have a different effect, it's not a variant i've played with or altered much tbh with this battle. so look forward to the progress of your version and look forward to playing it with or without history variants or options, with is a bouns and gives longer and better replayability imo, but either way thanks

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https://nebula.wsimg.com/6addacbe02d7244ae541ba0e1c6772e9?AccessKeyId=39A97B19779418754ADA&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

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https://www.oisterwijk-marketgarden.com/brief_chronology_of_operation_market-garden.html

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https://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/operation-market-garden.php

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https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=52

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https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-story-of-operation-market-garden-in-photos
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

It never snows in September? It can in our weather model...

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Clearly some weather table work to be done here.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Our Weather Model:

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Still working to get over the bumps of implementation of this model. The end state is to represent a weather capability that supports scenarios taking place in various operational environments between from 1799 to 2003. Governing the change of weather over time is our current challenge. Working...
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

This is the operational area covered by Monty's Front: Market-Garden:

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I have finished all the terrain analysis for Market-Garden except for the marsh/swamp/polder hexes. Another set of WWII maps required for that.

Interesting historical note: The town of Wesel was, "The Other...crossing of the Rhine" objective that was considered for Operation Market--instead of Arnhem. Wesel was rejected by the air force commanders due to the concentrations of flak in this area. Oddly, the same general area was selected for the air drops of British 6th Airborne and US 17th Airborne for Operation Varsity in March 1945...and...the losses to flak were high.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Significant advances with the MARKET-GARDEN map. I have finished my map analysis of polder and marsh hexes. Interesting finds along the way...Holland has cities/towns/villages called Haarlem, Gouda, Bree, Monster, and America. There was a substantial culling of villages and minor roads while designing the map. Villages located at significant road intersections are always included. Minor road networks that influenced the flow of the battle received the appropriate attention.

Deep thoughts...The further West you go (towards the ocean), the more likely it is that you are moving into a hex influenced by polder. The further East you go, the more "open" the terrain becomes. Just a guess but it would appear the intent behind the selection of the axis of advance for MARKET-GARDEN was to skirt the polder country to the extent possible. This might explain why going to Wesel instead of Arnhem was seriously considered at the beginning of MARKET-GARDEN planning as the best option for crossing the Rhine...well...except for the heavy AA concentrations located in that area and a few more bridges to cross to get there. But the terrain to Wesel does better support maneuver of armored/mechanized formations...

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Next up...I will need to assess the locations of all ferries and railway bridges crossing the water obstacles. This will be tedious work as many railroad lines criss-cross the Holland landscape. Holland was big on rail travel. I think ferry sites will be represented by an on-map bridging engineer type unit with a movement factor of 0. We'll see how that goes.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Drop zone hexes in WEGOWW2 represent sources of supply and reinforcement arrival locations for airborne/glider units. Drop zones are represented on the game map by a parachute icon with a number underneath. The number below the parachute symbol represents the range in hexes that friendly units can be supplied from the drop zone hex. First wave airborne units are not required to "drop" on drop zone hexes; however, follow-on airborne units (usually glider-borne units) must land on their assigned drop zone hexes on the assigned turn--weather permitting.

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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

As a general rule, first wave airborne regiments/brigades will be assigned an area in which they may drop. This includes an area around the historical drop area.

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The default set-up for first wave airborne units is historical. If the player wishes to play historical dispositions, then exit set-up mode and proceed to the first planning phase. Else, deploy your airborne units somewhere within the expanded set-up areas. These areas encompass those hexes of interest to the advance of XXX Corps.

Sooo...drop wisely...

Note. The map images posted above were created using the embedded, scenario editor's map-tile based game mapping system. The final game map for MARKET-GARDEN will be a single image file...as was seen in WEGOWW2: Desert War and Stalingrad.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by Remmes »

Looks nice although I do think the width and amount of major water obstacles near Eindhoven are a tad overdone.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

The Netherlands IS a water obstacle.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Maybe you can abstract terrain from an operational (logistical) perspective better than I:

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This area doesn't look supply truck-happy to me. Every road or track crossing a blue line represents a bridge OVER the blue line. A Bridge Too Far is a simplistic reduction of the actual situation--bridges, small and large--innumerable to count; all needing bridging to support wheeled vehicle supply traffic. The destruction of any one of them only finds historical happiness in their destruction and impact on the actual battle. The "Club Route" was a multitude of water obstacles that the engineers of the Guards had to facilitate to get the division forward to Arnhem and beyond--with supplies.

Cram these ideas into our WEGOWW2 2500m per hex scale. I'm good with my interpretation of the situation. Operation Market-Garden has never been represented as we have approached the question. It's all about the Ruhr--and Arnhem is but a stepping stone. And an advance to the Ruhr requires a continuous, unobstructed road network to supply the advance with fuel and ammo--across EVERY water obstacle.

We've got the game to represent this operational situation.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

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Remmes wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:54 pm Looks nice although I do think the width and amount of major water obstacles near Eindhoven are a tad overdone.
Prolly should have asked before I responded...are you familiar with the engineering/bridging model versus stream/river/major river and the bridges/pontoons dynamics in WEGOWW2?

I'm a truck guy. Trucks carry the good stuff--by THE TON. Trucks need roads and bridges to get to where they need to go. They need secure routes to get THE TONS to where they can do some "good". Supply trucks need to get to their destinations along a route that is constructed as "stupid" as possible; we don't need to hang a left at the dead cow and go until just before we get blowed-up in the polder. Simple and Secure Supply Routes ARE...

Trucks + Roads + Traffic Control + Favorable Water Crossings = Good Logistics.

WEGOWW2 manages these operational dynamics in a realistic manner; terrain is modeled to provide game-relevant tactical and operational feedback.

Terrain abstraction is subordinate to the operational logistics model.

Trucks.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by Remmes »

I live about 15 minutes from Eindhoven, so I know how the terrain looks and feels. The 'river' to the south of Valkenswaard is in fact a minor obstacle. That's what i meant when called them a tad overdone.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by Fraggo5 »

Would you like to try to drive a truck over that drain or a tank? see how you get on :?
Where I live in England our landscape is Fenland ,reclaimed from the sea many years ago but it's littered with drainage channels similar to the one you picture, the land adjacent would swallow trucks or tanks should they venture off-road.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by Zovs »

A tank can handle that stream just fine, a WW2 half track or any truck not so much.
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Re: Dev Log: Monty's Front--MARKET-GARDEN

Post by bcgames »

Remmes wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:06 pm I live about 15 minutes from Eindhoven, so I know how the terrain looks and feels. The 'river' to the south of Valkenswaard is in fact a minor obstacle. That's what i meant when called them a tad overdone. Water.jpg
Thanks for the feedback and providing the great photo. Nice to see this area from the ground level.

That's a stream hexside that you have indicated on the map. The movement points to cross a stream equals the terrain cost +2 (as is the case in WEGOWW2: Stalingrad). This +2 cost represents the ability of foot-mobile infantry units to cross minor water obstacles. It also represents the embedded bridging capability of divisional engineers to get wheeled vehicles across minor water obstacles.

I know it looks bad without knowing the terrain effects chart, but here is the deal--the more streams you have to cross at non-bridge hexsides in order to trace the XXX Corps supply line, the less likely it is that you can supply your most forward units. Fix and bypass is a capability for combat units to pursue in the game, but supply trucks need a protected, open road to get the goods forward. I think you will like our solution to the logistical problem presented by Hell's Highway.
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