Command & Control / Reorganizing

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Mark Breed
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Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by Mark Breed »

I generally find the C&C and Reorg penalties too severe. Of coarse, this depends on the time scale. For a turn that is less than a half-a-day, it is not necessarily inappropriate. However, in a large scale operation scenario where turns are mult-day/week long, it definitely seems too punishing and not necessarily "realistic".

It would be nice if there was a feature that allowed the designer to set the penalty. For example, the penalty could function as a percentage of combat and/or movement any where from a 100% penalty to a 10% penalty (thus, a scale of 10% increments).

If this is already a parameter available to change, please point me in the right direction. If not, please consider for an update.

Thank you,
Mark
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Mark Breed
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by Mark Breed »

Maybe it could be assigned to the leader function that is being developed?

Regards,
Mark
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Curtis Lemay
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by Curtis Lemay »

Unit and Formation proficiencies are set by the designer. (If you mean combat reorganization).

Shock penalties are also set by the designer (if you mean shock reorganization).

Commander "Charisma" ratings will impact reorganization as well.
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golden delicious
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by golden delicious »

I think Mark is looking for an effect short of a unit going fully into reorganisation status.

I note that prior to TOAW III, force 2 units didn't have their move reset until the start of force 1's turn. So if a unit was retreated out of a hex by an attack, it would have a reduced movement available that turn. This would be the sort of effect that Mark is probably thinking of, albeit symmetrical.

Anyway, I'm not convinced there's a problem. It's important to remember that the game is an abstraction: you feel like you're opening your turn on Monday of a given week and you're telling your units what to do until Sunday after which it will be the other's guys turn. However, in the real world both forces move simultaneously, and a unit which is so bloodied that it goes into reorganisation has likely been hit by enemy attacks multiple times during the week and at no point had the breathing space to respond to fresh orders.
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Mark Breed
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by Mark Breed »

Golden,

I realize that you may not think it is needed and that I am not just grasping the impact of simultaneous movement. However, my argument is not about whether the C&C and Reorg should be a factor as much as I am pointing out that it is not scalable with the various scenario length of game turns.

As I pointed out having it impact a two-hour turn is significantly different than it impacting a two-week turn. Why would it stop all movement for two weeks for one scenario and only stop a unit for two-hours in a similar situation? Shouldn't the forces in either scenario be effected for the same length of time? Furthermore, it could be argued that in a bigger scenario that while some sub-units may be impacted for an extremely long time, other sub-units within the same unit would get their acts together much quicker. Hence, the need for a scalable impact to C&C and Reorg penalties.

Regards,
Mark
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Curtis Lemay
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by Curtis Lemay »

Mark Breed wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 pm Golden,

I realize that you may not think it is needed and that I am not just grasping the impact of simultaneous movement. However, my argument is not about whether the C&C and Reorg should be a factor as much as I am pointing out that it is not scalable with the various scenario length of game turns.

As I pointed out having it impact a two-hour turn is significantly different than it impacting a two-week turn. Why would it stop all movement for two weeks for one scenario and only stop a unit for two-hours in a similar situation? Shouldn't the forces in either scenario be effected for the same length of time? Furthermore, it could be argued that in a bigger scenario that while some sub-units may be impacted for an extremely long time, other sub-units within the same unit would get their acts together much quicker. Hence, the need for a scalable impact to C&C and Reorg penalties.

Regards,
Mark
The net effect is the same regardless of turn interval. If a unit is reorganizing 1 turn out of 10, it amounts to the same amount of down-time in each case. While down-time is in two week chunks in one case, while two-hour chunks in the other, up-time is in those same chunks as well.
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golden delicious
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Re: Command & Control / Reorganizing

Post by golden delicious »

Mark Breed wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 pm Golden,

I realize that you may not think it is needed and that I am not just grasping the impact of simultaneous movement. However, my argument is not about whether the C&C and Reorg should be a factor as much as I am pointing out that it is not scalable with the various scenario length of game turns.

As I pointed out having it impact a two-hour turn is significantly different than it impacting a two-week turn. Why would it stop all movement for two weeks for one scenario and only stop a unit for two-hours in a similar situation? Shouldn't the forces in either scenario be effected for the same length of time? Furthermore, it could be argued that in a bigger scenario that while some sub-units may be impacted for an extremely long time, other sub-units within the same unit would get their acts together much quicker. Hence, the need for a scalable impact to C&C and Reorg penalties.

Regards,
Mark
Well, two things;
1) The unit in the two hour turn is being heavily attacked over the course of two hours. Your unit in the two week turn is being heavily attacked over the course of two weeks
2) It becomes a matter of scale. How much disruption stops a company moving, versus a corps? How much disruption stops you shifting your eighty surviving guys two kilometres down the road, versus stopping you figuring out which regiments are still intact, where they are, appointing new commanders to replace the casualties, and then dragging them over to some location 50km away?
"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."
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