Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

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CFab
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:56 pm

Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by CFab »

Hello Everyone!

Thought about posting my questions in the quick questions thread but while I was typing I thought this might be a little too long a list for the quick questions thread.

First off: What a game! Been trying to play the grand campaign for some time now. The first few tries I felt completly overwhelmed with the scale of the game and the amount of units. After a few tries I decided to just play a few turns as the Soviets. And I must say that after 3/4 turns after I managed to get some sort of logical organization the game started to click for me. I'm just scratching the surface for now but I'm learning something new every turn.

In my GC I'm currently on turn 16 and my Soviet OOB is 4.5 million against the Axis AI on 100 (still learning so I didn't up the difficulty). I'm entrenched along the Dnepr and still holding on to Kiev and Smolensk. I'm fairly happy with that for my first game. But that's not why I'm posting here. I've read some AAR and I have a few questions.

1) I've read in a AAR of M60A3TTS that he actively disbands certain Soviet units to save manpower and trucks. Could anyone explain which units should/could be disbanded and the reasoning behind why this units

2) How do you go about assigning support units for the Soviet side. Do you do this manually or do you set the support leveln through the command report and let the AI assign the units. Futher, do you assign the support units to the army level or on the front level?

3) Futher elaborating on point 2. How many support units do you assign to an HQ?

4) When I'm using the Units tab on the commander's report. Is there a way to see to which HQ the units belong? This would make assigning support units easier I believe.

5) Is there a way to quickly see in the commanders report which units contain a certain element? For example. I've read in an AAR from M60A3TTS that the 152mm ML-20 Gun-Howitzer is a very good heavy artillery gun. I would like to concentrate these guns on a position where the Germans are concentrating their forces. Now I'm constantly clicking to look for the heavy guns.

Looking forward to your replies! Any other pointers and tips are always welcome.

Regards,

CFab
Sammy5IsAlive
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by Sammy5IsAlive »

Welcome CFab :mrgreen: !!

I don't play Soviets that much so I'll leave the queries specific to them to others.
CFab wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:51 am
4) When I'm using the Units tab on the commander's report. Is there a way to see to which HQ the units belong? This would make assigning support units easier I believe.

5) Is there a way to quickly see in the commanders report which units contain a certain element? For example. I've read in an AAR from M60A3TTS that the 152mm ML-20 Gun-Howitzer is a very good heavy artillery gun. I would like to concentrate these guns on a position where the Germans are concentrating their forces. Now I'm constantly clicking to look for the heavy guns.

Looking forward to your replies! Any other pointers and tips are always welcome.

Regards,

CFab
For question 4 - as far as I know the default view on the Commanders Report should show the parent HQ of both on map and support units. If you can't find the column (HHQ) then go to the sideways arrow at the top left hand corner next to the current column headers, click on it and this should expand the columns so that they all show. You can then tick/untick columns and create a custom view that will persist if you click the arrow again (which will hide all unticked columns). Hope that makes sense? With Support Units you can also sometimes have a problem when they are attached to an on map unit as then their 'parent HQ' is shown as the unit and not the actual HQ the unit belongs to. I try to deal with this by selecting the HQ I am interested in and then clicking "show subordinate units" - this will then take you to the CR report and you will have all the Support units under that HQ, whether they are in the HQ or attached to on map units.

For question 5 - If you go to the production screen (hotkey P) and find the element you are interested in. On the right hand side you should see a column giving the number of units that currently contain that element - click on this number and it will take you to the Commanders Report Unit page with a filter set - you can then set additional filters as you wish. Another helpful piece of info you get by going to the Commanders Report in this route is you will get the total number of ready and damaged elements currently in your units - again this number will update if you further filter the results.

Hope that helps!!!
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Beethoven1
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by Beethoven1 »

I'll follow up with the other ones.
1) I've read in a AAR of M60A3TTS that he actively disbands certain Soviet units to save manpower and trucks. Could anyone explain which units should/could be disbanded and the reasoning behind why this units
The main reasons to disband stuff are to free up manpower, equipment, and trucks for other units, especially if your other units are short of those things. In the production view, click on "Ground Element Map."

Image

This will open up a big list of all the types of equipment and will say whether you have a surplus of something or are lacking it. Also, in that screenshot, on the left, where it has the numbers in yellow (2, 82, 1, 1, 15, etc) if you click on those it will pull up a list in the commander's report of all the units that are using a particular type of equipment. So if you are short on something, you can see which units are using it up.

In general, good things to disband include motorized engineers (they are the same as regular engineers, but use trucks), a decent amount of artillery (because you start with more than you can support), a decent amount of AT/AA (same reason), separate tank battalions/regiments (they take away tanks from your brigades/divisions/corps), motorcycle regiments (waste of trucks). Depending on your specific shortages, you may want to disband various other things like some of your low experience/morale tank divisions (to make the rest better), and possibly other things like some of your engineers, depending on how much you prioritize building forts.
2) How do you go about assigning support units for the Soviet side. Do you do this manually or do you set the support leveln through the command report and let the AI assign the units. Futher, do you assign the support units to the army level or on the front level?

3) Futher elaborating on point 2. How many support units do you assign to an HQ?
In general, doing it manually is better, but if you are just playing casually in single player, you probably don't need to bother. If you are wanting to eventually play another human player, then try assigning manually, and basically just prioritize the good stuff first to your assault fronts and your good commanders.

The maximum # of support units that can be committed in any particular battle by a single HQ is 6. So after you have that many, adding additional ones starts to have diminishing returns. However, sometimes SUs will become unready, and you will often have more than 1 battle per hq per turn, and ideally it is nice for the SUs to have some CPP. So you can go up a decent amount above 6 for those reasons. How much? Hard to say, maybe a bit more for your best commanders/troops, a bit less for the dregs.
CFab
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by CFab »

Thanks for your great reply's. Went and looked at my game and I can follow your pointers.

I do have one follow-up question regarding the Ground element map. Unfortunatly I can't upload a screenshot due to not typing this on my gaming laptop, but can you perhaps give some explanation about how I should read that page? There are a lot of numbers but the headers don't explain (at least to me) what the columns mean.

Thank you in advance!

Regards,

Cfab
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malyhin1517
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by malyhin1517 »

I highly recommend reading the manual at least briefly. Perhaps you will find answers to your questions there.
Sorry, i use an online translator :(
CFab
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by CFab »

I have but the ground elements Map page is only explained briefly on page 413 and I want to know if I'm reading it the right way.

It says this page shows gaps between TOE of your units and the allocated resources. If I'm reading it the right way it shows a sum of the missing elements and how many of those are being refitted. How many elements are in the pool and how many are in the transit pool.

But missing can be negative or positive. And if Refit is greater than the missing value. Does this mean you can expect this elements to get back into the units?

I'm still learning the game and this page gives me some questions on how to interpret this data.
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malyhin1517
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by malyhin1517 »

You don't need to know this in great detail. You can't influence the distribution of elements in any way. It is enough to know the Commander's Report to manage the refit of your units. As a last resort, you can always open the unit details window and view its TOE.
Sorry, i use an online translator :(
Stamb
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by Stamb »

at some point i was also trying to understand that screen, but could not
it might be bugged or i just do not know how to read it

for example:
this is German support
205th ID has 88 in a column with a title Miss
in some cases there is a minus sign, which indicates that X elements are missing
but here is it without a minus
3.png
3.png (2.76 MiB) Viewed 441 times
so it should mean that there is a surplus of that elements in this division?
but it is not a case:
4.png
4.png (349.41 KiB) Viewed 441 times
now we look at support in general and we can see that there are
14346 support elements, again without a minus in front of them, and it looks like that they are missing 286k manpower?
so if they need manpower then they are missing this elements and it is not a surplus of support elements
1.png
1.png (2.69 MiB) Viewed 441 times
but then it does work with this example:
2.png
2.png (633.07 KiB) Viewed 441 times
where sp flak is clearly a missing element in different units
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Intelligent
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by Intelligent »

Regarding the disbanding of connections, it seems to me that their list is quite significant.
1) Builders numbering less than a regiment. I think they should be disbanded at 41. For two reasons. They contain machine guns that rifle divisions need. they also contain builders who are not enough for rifle divisions. Some of these units are motorized, in my opinion this is also an important reason.
2) Corps Art Regiment. At 41, as far as I remember, you have corps regiments of 4 different states. A B C D. One of these states includes artillery that can be used by rifle divisions. These regiments should be disbanded.
3) Everything is not BM Howitzer. These regiments are also equipped with artillery suitable for divisions.
4) All mortar connections. From 120 mortar. These mortars are used in rifle divisions.
5) AT brigade. They use quite a lot of guns of various types and few infantry. They die very easily and lose all this equipment. Therefore, it is better to let these guns die as part of a rifle division than like that.
6) The bunker, including those that are in the theater. But then again, that's only if you're playing with advanced theater controls.
7) All tank formations except for motorized mechanized and tank divisions, as well as tank brigades. All small formations can of course be used as part of support in divisions but. Static defense against a person does not work at 41. Even 20 BC of defense is knocked out by 2 German medium infantry divisions. And the presence of the regiment will not help them to resist. And to put 3 divisions along the line with the German on the terrain, you will not have enough divisions or terrain. Somewhere you will have a weak point where the German can advance in depth from 3 to 5 cells, depending on the number of tanks used to break through. It is categorically impossible to disband tank brigades. They can help in organizing counterattacks.

But in general, it’s better to look at what you are missing and from this it’s already decided to disband. The only thing that cannot be disbanded is rifle divisions and brigades. Most of them are rifle squads, and you will absolutely always have enough of them. If not, then moderate your desires regarding the formation of divisions.
Intelligent
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by Intelligent »

However, it is worth remembering that as a result of all these manipulations, you will have many divisions with a cleanliness of 14K and 200 guns. And it is very important not to lose these divisions. And do not put them on the field without at least a small river. So they will simply kill them for you from one route, this division will become 7000-9000 strong.
CFab
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Re: Questions from a beginner mainly regarding support units

Post by CFab »

Thanks guys! Really helpfull input. I will start experementing with disbanding units and see If I can analyse which units I should disbanded and which ones I should keep.
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