Some hopefully small effort/high Impact improovements of Pull points

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zgrssd
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Some hopefully small effort/high Impact improovements of Pull points

Post by zgrssd »

Currently when you hit a branch with pull points, logistics is split like this:
- if Logistics Points < Sum(Pull Points), the Logistics Points will be split using the Pull points to define the ratio.
- if Logistics Points => Sum(Pull Points), enough LP to fullfill each Pull requests will be send into the respective direction
- any leftover points will be split evenly. That is my issue.

Meaning that if i produce 12k Logistics and the Pull points are 3900 and 100 in different directions, I get 4k split by need and the remaining the 8k split even between both lines.
So both directions get Pull Points + 4000 delivered.
That seems not ideal. But I had some ideas to fix that. They are mutually exclusive, there are some options to pick.

Dead end Detection
The ideal would be a detection for "dead ends". Roads that just split off to supply 1-3 assets each needing 100 LP (so 100 Pull Points) - as opposed to my main supply Aortas!
You can archieve this manualy by putting in a 100% block for anything but pull points - nothing more then the pull pionts go that way. The remainder is split evenly to the roads that actually mater. But that is manual and could be automated.

The definition of "dead end" would be any road, that does not supply a Zone or even 1 Military unit.
That road with only Mines to supply? Dead end
The same road with a Unit at the end? Not a dead end
The same road with a Zone at the end? Not a dead end

The split would not be ideal, but it would avoid the most extreme cases of wastage

Weighted Split
If I got 12k Logistisc points and 3900 Pull in one direction and 100 into another, it seems much more reasonable to split the LP 11700/300, then 7900/4100.
Basically you just split the excess points by the pull points as well.

Noteable:
- still a bit wastage on that Mining Dead end
- but it can detect if you have 2-3 aortas with very different loads
- basically the case where you can cover the pull points fully with be the optional case - and whatever you got after, you just split by weighting

Not enough Pull Points
If there is a bottleneck, why should the Logistics planer not place more pull points there next turn?
Basically if a Zone or Unit could not get all supply due to issues along the road/rail, it will place extra pull points for next turn - equal to how much extra Logistics it would have needed extra.

Hopefully that extra will be enough to fullfill the backlog.

Noteable:
- there is a serious danger of extreme pulls from a front leading to starving Assets at the homefront.
- it seems wrong to notice supply issues on your homefront, rather then the front-front.
- maybe you could add "pull points of the 2nd order"? Pull points that are only used to split the excess, not affect the initial orders
zgrssd
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Some hopefully small effort/high Impact improovements of Pull points

Post by zgrssd »

I still think those changes would be a welcome addition. Poor logistics splitting causes no end of annoying Micro with Trafficsigns. And noobtraps.

But some additional notes:
I would modify the dead end detection to only say "not a dead end" if there is a unit with OHQ, a OHQ itself or city on the other end.
All the big battlefields will have Formations with OHQ. And nearby. Every where else? We can asume it is a Militia fight at best.

The Weighted Split should be no issue to implement. You are already doing a weighted split if Pullpoints > Supply.
This would just be expandng the same split to whatever is left after Supply - Pull Points. It is the same math, with the same values. It just applies at a different step of the calculation.
It is not perfect of course. But often "Perfect is the enemy of good".
Jazlizard
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Some hopefully small effort/high Impact improovements of Pull points

Post by Jazlizard »

Since I'm trying to learn as much as I can, can you explain what a noobtrap is?
zgrssd
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Re: Some hopefully small effort/high Impact improovements of Pull points

Post by zgrssd »

Jazlizard wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:17 am Since I'm trying to learn as much as I can, can you explain what a noobtrap is?
For me it means something that at the same time:
- will utterly surprise, annoy or hinder new players to play the game at all
- will not be any issues for any experienced player, who knows to work around them

But SE logistics is particulary bad for having very deep noobtraps like that.
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