Kashmir

Take command of air and naval assets from post-WW2 to the near future in tactical and operational scale, complete with historical and hypothetical scenarios and an integrated scenario editor.

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hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

I am currently playing Chaos Kashmir Fire. The Pakistani Airforce is very weak compared to the Indian Airforce. The Pakistani missiles seldom hit their targets. I don't expect the scenario to be balanced, but it just seems too unrealistic, or am I missing something?
hrfepo1
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

I must express my frustration with the design of the Chaos scenario. Too much intelligence and purpose of the scenario are missing. I am disappointed with the designer; the job is not complete. The designer needs to provide more information. This is like playing Mario.
KnightHawk75
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:24 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by KnightHawk75 »

That's a shame the scene disappoints for you. Not the answer you're looking for but, one of the beauties of CMO is when you feel a scene doesn't contain all the content to your own specific liking, you can pop into the editor and make the changes you see fit to make for yourself and create a variant of your own to play.

That said if you laid out perhaps specifically what information is lacking, and what intelligence is considered too much, how you think the Pak Airforce should be enhanced, etc, the designer and others would be better able to assess the feedback for any future adjustments.
hrfepo1
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

I apologize if came in too hard, but I have worked this scenario over 2 dozen times and I don't get it. I am not an expert in this simulation; however, I know enough to achieve the objectives in other scenarios like "The Don of a New Era" on the first try. So, thanks to the many contributors posting videos on U-Tube and to the designers of this magnificent simulation.

I expect this simulation to be a learning experience. I am not interested in playing to win. I am interested in getting an idea of what are the possible tactical and strategic situations at a given point in time. I don't have time to do research; therefore, that is why I purchased every CMO scenario and DLC published. In this case, I would like to know why this scenario is so loaded in favor of India and what is the most likely outcome. As it is, I can't give the scenario any credibility. The scenario should be more transparent as to what the is the situation even if it is total annihilation of friendly forces.

Again, I apologize if I have offended anyone.
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dadizonline
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RE: Kashmir

Post by dadizonline »

It's widely discussed and sometimes heated debate
*use cruise missiles to hit FOBs with carefully planned waypoints to hide them from radar "intel indicates SAMs are present on FOB" and you probably know exactly where so try to decrease OODA loop anyhow to avoid cruise missiles getting hit.
*Use F-16s to cover rest of flight elements EMCON passive turn it on only when firing, use 1x AIM-120 on each IAF bird but when Su-30s or MiG-29s are within 50nm and dive after firing at loiter speed they can't engage target beyond 45nm just don't let them fire and even if you get in range turn F-16s into the opposite direction at minimum altitude on afterburner while other flight of F-16s should cover them.
*Use helicopters strictly inside Pakistan airspace at max just 5-10nm across the Indian border
*To locate tanks and other targets to hit use drone or radar, sniper pod of F-16s when IAF birds are not present.
History is written by victor.
hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

Thank you. I appreciate the F-16 tactics you describe. I was not aware of them. But are we discussing scenario 3 (Chaos)? I don't think that there are Indian FOBs or Pakistani cruise missiles in this scenario. Am I missing something?
maverick3320
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:12 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by maverick3320 »

ORIGINAL: hrfepo1

I apologize if came in too hard, but I have worked this scenario over 2 dozen times and I don't get it. I am not an expert in this simulation; however, I know enough to achieve the objectives in other scenarios like "The Don of a New Era" on the first try. So, thanks to the many contributors posting videos on U-Tube and to the designers of this magnificent simulation.

I expect this simulation to be a learning experience. I am not interested in playing to win. I am interested in getting an idea of what are the possible tactical and strategic situations at a given point in time. I don't have time to do research; therefore, that is why I purchased every CMO scenario and DLC published. In this case, I would like to know why this scenario is so loaded in favor of India and what is the most likely outcome. As it is, I can't give the scenario any credibility. The scenario should be more transparent as to what the is the situation even if it is total annihilation of friendly forces.

Again, I apologize if I have offended anyone.

I guess I'll be that guy here:

If you don't have time to do research, how do you have time to play the same scenario 24 times? How will you have time to play every scenario and DLC that you purchased?
hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

1. I started a month ago and when all the airplanes are down, I stop and start again with a different approach.
2. Off-course I haven't played all of them. But I have them and support the CMO business.
stolypin
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:06 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by stolypin »

In my opinion, Kashmir is the best of all of the Command DLCs. I've been playing Command for 6 years now and have a pretty good grasp of the game but some of the Kashmir scenarios are definitely a challenge. I find that I usually need 2 or 3 tries to achieve a decent result. But that's okay since the scenarios are very interesting.
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nukkxx5058
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Location: France

RE: Kashmir

Post by nukkxx5058 »

Kashmir is very hard and I couldn't win a single scenario (in one try, as it should be). But KF is really fun. I like the story it tells, as well as the geopolitiocal context. I enjoyed playing it a lot ! Great stuff !

Will definitely try it again later, when my CMO skills improve.
Winner of the first edition of the Command: Modern Operations COMPLEX PBEM Tournament (April 2022) :-)
hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

I am not arguing that the scenarios are bad. I am not qualified to make that judgment. I am arguing that I want to know more about the rationale used to select the forces in play. Perhaps, it's me that does not see and understand what the situation is. Oh well! I'll just drop it.

For the record, last night I met the objectives of the scenario with a remarkably simple plan, A CAP patrol, and a ground patrol. Ended with a score of 50. However, I don't know what this means in terms of realism.
stww2
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:58 am

RE: Kashmir

Post by stww2 »

Bear in mind, Chaos (KF3) follows Retaliation (KF2), in which the player, as India, conducted a major offensive counter air operation against Pakistani forces. So it makes sense that Pakistan would be weaker than otherwise might be expected...their air forces almost certainly just suffered heavy losses! Plus, as part of the background to KF3, elements of the Pakistani military have defected to the Mountain Alliance, no doubt weakening their forces further.

I don't know what the canonical Pakistani losses are in KF2, but when I played that scenario I inflicted the following losses on the Pakistani air force:

4x F.27-200MAR Maritime
9x F-16AM Falcon MLU
4x F-16BM Falcon MLU
18x F-16CJ Blk 52+ Falcon [Peace Drive]
5x F-16DJ Blk 52+ Falcon [Peace Drive]
33x F-7MP Skybolt [F-7PG]
1x Falcon 20F-ECM
22x JF-17 Thunder Blk 3
20x JF-17B Thunder Blk 3
12x Mirage 5F [ROSE II/III]
22x Mirage IIIO(F/A) [ROSE I]
3x P-3C Orion Update II
3x Saab 2000 AEW&C [Erieye]

While the IAF suffered the following:

2x Jaguar IS [Darin 3]
2x Ka-27PL Helix A
12x MiG-21bis UPG Fishbed N [Bison]
8x MiG-29UPG Fulcrum A
5x Mirage 2000H-5
2x Rafale B
2x Searcher II UAV
1x Su-30MKI Mk2 Flanker H

Again, I don't know what the Pakistani KF2 losses were supposed to be for story-purposes, but assuming it was anything approaching the above, you can see why they they would be at a disadvantage by the time of KF3.
hrfepo1
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RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

Good point! Hypothetical, but plausible. Thanks!
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dadizonline
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RE: Kashmir

Post by dadizonline »

Sorry I got confused between Chaos (KF3 and KF1) played KF few months ago.
History is written by victor.
hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

No problem. However, thanks for the F-16 EMCON tactic. I will try to use it in a CAP mission this weekend and will let you know how it worked.
Matharox
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:46 am

RE: Kashmir

Post by Matharox »

The entire campaign is hilariously unrealistic and implausible, not to mention that it uses outdated data.

It's supposed to take place in 2024 yet the data is from 2019 at best (no JF-17 blk 3s with PL-15Es, no J-10CPs)
hrfepo1
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RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

That is what it seems to me, but I don't feel qualified to make a judgment. However, I don't mind hypothetical scenarios for the sake of learning how each platform/weapon fares against the other. My problem is when a designer uses tricks that are not well documented. I don't learn anything other than a game nuisance. For example, I have been playing the doomsday day scenario and there is a battery of ballistic missiles that cannot be knocked out. I don't know what it is and can't find any hints in the manual. Obviously, the designer knows something that is not well documented, and you must play to figure it out. I am not into CMO to play a game. I want a simulation that can teach me something.
BobTank63
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:49 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by BobTank63 »

Kashmir Fire is my least favorite DLC. I quit on Mission 7: Alliances due to the Indians getting ballistic missiles that you are never told about and that you have no defenses to counter. The only way to stop the strike is to hit them before they launch, but the player is never given any knowledge about these targets.

Mission 3: is hard but doable. The key is to basically let the Indians hit the MA first, then attack with your own forces to mop up. The Indians get Rafales in their strike package which is what probably is screwing you over.

Mission 4: was actually pretty fun for me. To find the BMs you have to move a COMINT plane (should be mentioned in the briefing) to a designated area and wait a bit. The location of the BMs will be revealed to you after a bit (I think this is a custom Lua event so it won't be in the manual). Also, make sure to go low with your strike aircraft as the weather is terrible.
hrfepo1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:19 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by hrfepo1 »

My problem with this DLC is that there are too many surprises. The designer(s) should be providing more guidance on what can be done. In the years I spent in NAVY we never entered any situation without having intelligence of what to expect and what to do. It's like the plot of an action movie.
BobTank63
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:49 pm

RE: Kashmir

Post by BobTank63 »

ORIGINAL: hrfepo1

My problem with this DLC is that there are too many surprises. The designer(s) should be providing more guidance on what can be done. In the years I spent in NAVY we never entered any situation without having intelligence of what to expect and what to do. It's like the plot of an action movie.
I completely agree. Red Tide is nice in that aspect as you are given a lot of hints (at least for the first two scenarios).
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