Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

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Stamb
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by Stamb »

Soviet naval HQ can destroy any nearby unit in a water, right? Axis can not keep their HQ there.

But overall probably you are right about it. Still I think that there must be such an ability if a player really decides to defend this or any other major city
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loki100
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Soviet naval HQ can destroy any nearby unit in a water, right? Axis can not keep their HQ there.

...

No, but I'd like it if the Soviet player did that as I'd sink it using naval interdiction and remove that threat for the balance of the game
Stamb
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by Stamb »

24.6.2
Image

It is not working like that? If Axis HQ will be near Sevastopol in the sea, and naval HQ moves near it, it (Axis HQ) will still stay in the same place?
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xhoel
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by xhoel »

The naval rules have been taken over from WitW, so what Stamb is saying should be correct.
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Jeff_Ahl
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by Jeff_Ahl »

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

I don't see an issue with "altering" the historical doctrine set by Hitler and Stalin.

1. Russians are under no obligation to do suicidal and very expensive useless attacks on the Germans or stick around whilst they get surrounded.

2. The Germans are under no obligation to stick their neck in a noose aka Stalingrad and not withdraw to a better defensive position.

3. The so-called "fortress" cities will not happen out of thin air as in a Harry Potter movie. It will take time, engineers, and especially SUPPLIES, and lots and lots of supplies to build them.

+1
RedJohn
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by RedJohn »

I think the Axis should have the ability to make city forts in the SU. It's not like Soviets in late 42 and the rest of 43/44/45 can't absolutely smash them anyway, and it's a serious commitment as the Axis where if you decide to shove >3 IDs into a hex you're no doubt weakening other parts of the front massively.
TallBlondJohn
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by TallBlondJohn »

I'm new to this debate, so here's my thinking (as a newbie):

1. The 3 unit limit of the WITE/WITW/WITE2 family is sometimes a bit odd, but it does work (except for HQs, they should be free IMO).
2. Ideally, the limit should be - whatever an army can stick in the area represented by the hex without insurmountable difficulties (traffic, physical space to deploy etc). And the surmountable difficulties should incur penalties.
3. These limits rarely occurred on the Eastern front, so are they worth the complexity?

Which brings us to...

4. They did happen on the Western front, especially invasion bridgeheads. For instance the big MP hit at the start of Operation Goodwood.
5. So how would a higher stack limit affect WITW2, or the hoped for all Europe game we all dream of? Normandy, the Westwall and Italy's fortified lines all come to mind.

WITE2 is part of a family, and its system should be able to reflect the physics and doctrines of warfare throughout Europe. We do need a 'city-fort' (not the best name, I think the Devs admitted that) mechanic that allows a hex to be overstacked. I think it can be improved (e.g. an AP cost, and various potential penalties - say an automatic delay for anything moving through the hex, artillery bonus to the enemy firing into it), but anyone can create them anywhere. Obviously cities and urban would be best, mountains probably impossible.

Once overstacked, well all you have is a lot of units in one place with corresponding weaknesses elsewhere, plus the penalties. Fortifying this position is a completely separate matter - you need admin, supplies and time, and the level of fortification possible will depend on the terrain. The more you create, the thinner those engineering experts and special supplies of wire and concrete will be spread. You might have extra men in the hex for digging, but as usual can you spare them?
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loki100
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RE: Germans need city forts in Soviet Union

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Stamb

24.6.2
Image

It is not working like that? If Axis HQ will be near Sevastopol in the sea, and naval HQ moves near it, it (Axis HQ) will still stay in the same place?

here's a confession - I've never read that [:o]. Guess I've never seen it happen in WiTW as the only times the axis are doing naval moves is in the early game around the Italian islands and the Allied TF counters are usually very much tied up
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