Ok it's time to go

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna



) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples

Links and examples please. At this time I do not accept that that is a frequent feature of this forum.

Also, if you are referring to the occasional usage of the contraction "Japs" that sometimes is seen here, you are going to have to do a lot of work to convince those of us, who had relatives sadistically murdered by them in POW camps, that there is anything wrong with that.

[littleike]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.
.......

Here you are wrong. If you feel you are part of a community every action vs others forumites that seems to you unfair or disproportioned can hurt.
I don't want to go on further, simply i see that my balance of valours dating from the sixties is no more in line with what is actual politically correct, so
i prefer to not post due to the real risk to hurt inadvertitely someone.

I excuse if i could have done the impreession i am a lion of the keyboard. I think this is the best forum i have seen ever and i will surely continue to read and buy from here.

I can only say that if you search the evil where it is not you will sooner or later meet it indeed.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff




yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

fb.asp?m=5031816

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna



) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples

Links and examples please. At this time I do not accept that that is a frequent feature of this forum.

Also, if you are referring to the occasional usage of the contraction "Japs" that sometimes is seen here, you are going to have to do a lot of work to convince those of us, who had relatives sadistically murdered by them in POW camps, that there is anything wrong with that.

I find it fascinating and rather revealing that your justification for using language widely considered as derogatory in the modern world is events that happened nearly eighty years ago.

[Panjack]

I appreciate the changes Matrix is imposing on their forums.

[anarchyintheuk]

-1

[Yaab]

This forum is mental as anything.

Started out with pin-up girls
Woh-oh, the nips are gettin' bigger

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In that regard, Edmon was acting to enforce our forum rules on a high level of decency.

OK, so the forum has to adhere to a "high level of decency". What about the games that Matrix sells and profits from? For example, consider Distant Worlds: Universe. This game is still for sale at the rather high price of 59.99, and it features a number of "playable races", one of which is comprised entirely of scantily clad women (see below). Given these new Matrix "decency" standards, do you plan to modify that game or remove it immediately from your list of offerings? Also, are there plans to review the rest of your catalogue and to similarly ensure that Matrix does not have other games from which it profits and which contain images that deviate from these high decency standards?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna




CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe




Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

What were the motivations behind you posting such a photo and accompanying commentary?

[rockmedic109]

I have always tried to carefully word my posts. Erasing nearly half of what I write because I do not want to be taken the wrong way. Easy to do when the reader does not get any of the subtle non-vocal communication that is used in face to face communication. I really shouldn't though. I just don't matter that much.

I am 58 years old. I have seen the pendulum swing so many times in so many different thoughts, endeavors, trends, etc, that I have come to the conclusion that it is a natural part of the human condition. I have seen the same company that started more like a family, turn into nasty bean-counting hell and swing back....more than once.

I have been gone from the forum for a while. Just started to come back recently. The change is stark. Gone are quite a few of the old timers that I enjoyed reading. Alfred's wit was sometimes acidic and his patience would wear thin, but one could learn a vast amount of this game by reading his posts. CR gone? I used to think of this forum as a family.

Does the Green Button still work? If you don't like a poster, use the Green Button and ignore them. I could be wrong, probably am. But after a year long {I think} layoff, I get the impression that some people are complaining and trying to get other people banned.

If someone does not like my posts, well, I really don't care.

I love this game, but next to everything else in life, it's not that important.

In a couple weeks or months, I'll find another game that I want to play for a while. I'll be back, I always come back. Hopefully the pendulum will have swung back to being more like a family.

Gotta go. The dogs want to go outside.

[Edmon]

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing




fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

What were the motivations behind you posting such a photo and accompanying commentary?

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach

Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?

[DD696]

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?

In post #24 of this thread, you asked for examples of crassness towards women. I was able to immediately provide an example of that.

Your current attempt to weasel the discussion away from what you actually posted to the why it's currently under focus is fooling nobody.

I'm not going to indulge in a full audit of your objectionable activities as:

1) It's not my job, frankly

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're already well known to the admin staff for posting wider objectionable (and in some jurisdictions - illegal) content. Perhaps a better request would be to ask for a search of posts that are not objectionable?

[Kull]

Thanks for that comment, DD696! This is BEYOND parody. Look who posted this image - on 11/23 no less - well AFTER this supposed "decency" standard was adopted:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Development Diary #5 - Q&A Time