Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive is the fourth wargame in the Decisive Campaign series. Covering the battles in the Ardennes between December 1944 and January 1945, it brings to life Operational wargaming by lowering the scale to just above tactical level.

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Octavian
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Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Octavian »

I know from other games of the series, that using artillery each turn gave massive diminishing returns in firepower, so u had to use them sparsely, say every 3 or 4 rounds only, in order to have a full force artillery strike.
I didn´t find any hint about that or an exact formula for artillery depletion per round or something the like in the manual.
Can anyone help out?
gwgardner
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by gwgardner »

Vigour/fatigue are important for effectiveness, especially night rest is critical.

Jagger2002
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Jagger2002 »

Watch your artillery unit supply. I believe if it is close to full, then they will hit with their full strength. The nebelwerfers appear to be the artillery most affected by low supply.
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carll11
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by carll11 »

I also seem to think ( that is I am guessing) that repeated, separate fire on a unit/hex gives diminishing returns, it seems that way to me;

I have tried several experiments with werfering, gun arty mortars etc., it seems to me that the best effect on a enemy unit is always the first bombardment, hitting it a second , 3rd time, just doesn't give you the same effect, I have backed up and replayed a turn and used the same arty I used previously on the 3rd bombardment , first and always get a higher kill %.

I dont know if there is a 'constant' timeline<>timestamp as in Art of War wherein you simply cannot keep hitting the same hex with the same real effect due to number of limited rounds you can 'expend' in an overall turn etc....
Rosseau
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Rosseau »

Yes, I have definitely experienced the same "diminishing" effects of numerous fire missions on the same target and have adjusted accordingly!
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SwampYankee68
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by SwampYankee68 »

I have seen that too, although I am still new so can't say it is a constant.
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JacquesDeLalaing
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by JacquesDeLalaing »

Afaik:

1) Vigor is reduced by 5 if your unit has actively fired the previous turn (manual p. 49). Vigor is the cap on your unit's readiness, which is very important in fire actions. Each point that your unit lacks in readiness gives -1% fire power.
2) The loss of entrenchment of the target unit is limited to 33% (of its entrenchment at the start of the turn; or after it being forced to retreat by close combat). So concerning entrenchment loss, there are diminishing returns.
3) There is no "max attacked" malus for artillery fire. No diminishing returns here.
4) What might be confusing is that if an indirect fire element has direct LOS on the target, it receives a significant boost to its fire power (+1% fire power for each percetnage point LOS).

That being said, I think artillery is best reserved for intercept fire. The disruptive power particularly against non-armored units is massive (enemy unit loses its AP!). I only use artillery actively if I have to assault a strong position or if a tempting target of opportunity springs up (incautious enemy stopping a unit non-entrenched in the open...).
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carll11
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by carll11 »

ORIGINAL: JacquesDeLalaing

That being said, I think artillery is best reserved for intercept fire. The disruptive power particularly against non-armored units is massive (enemy unit loses its AP!). I only use artillery actively if I have to assault a strong position or if a tempting target of opportunity springs up (incautious enemy stopping a unit non-entrenched in the open...).

Sure,but making those decision turn to turn are dicey, 1) what side are you playing 2) you dont know ( unless U play with FOW off) when you are going to need that arty unit fresher than if it just had spent the previous enemy turn firing harassment missions
( which I think is way over effective here, 81 mm mortars are stopping my arm col.'s, and along with ALL movement for inf. units?)

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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Oberst_Klink »

Enemy artillery, once reeced, is always on my priority list to destroy or to weaken; especially when playing the Germans.

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Rosseau
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Rosseau »

ORIGINAL: JacquesDeLalaing

Afaik:

1) Vigor is reduced by 5 if your unit has actively fired the previous turn (manual p. 49). Vigor is the cap on your unit's readiness, which is very important in fire actions. Each point that your unit lacks in readiness gives -1% fire power.
2) The loss of entrenchment of the target unit is limited to 33% (of its entrenchment at the start of the turn; or after it being forced to retreat by close combat). So concerning entrenchment loss, there are diminishing returns.
3) There is no "max attacked" malus for artillery fire. No diminishing returns here.
4) What might be confusing is that if an indirect fire element has direct LOS on the target, it receives a significant boost to its fire power (+1% fire power for each percetnage point LOS).

That being said, I think artillery is best reserved for intercept fire. The disruptive power particularly against non-armored units is massive (enemy unit loses its AP!). I only use artillery actively if I have to assault a strong position or if a tempting target of opportunity springs up (incautious enemy stopping a unit non-entrenched in the open...).

The information listed above is really shaking up the way I've been (thinking) of using artillery and the intercept fire functions. Typically, I've been blasting away using one large bombardment, while pretty much ignoring the specific intercept fire orders for individual units, partially due to avoiding too much micromanagement. This may be acceptable when playing against the AI, but not vs. another human.

I do find when you click that right mouse button over an enemy to enter the combat set-up screen and see a long list of "Eligible Forces" one needs to be very selective (obviously) and also "know" the characteristics of each unit to bring into the combat. For example, the unit with full LOS that's going to hit hardest. You see the positive difference in the data when that unit is added to the attack, but you really don't "know" it's because it has great LOS unless you have consulted a previous screen. Then you have readiness to consider, and more.
Jagger2002
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Jagger2002 »

Has anyone figured out the priority in listing artillery units in the ranged combat window? It appears they are not listed in order of strongest attacks or by nearest attacks. So I am not sure why they are placed in the order in which they are listed.
----PS----just took a close look and it appears available artillery units are simply listed by location from west to east of the target.

I tend to use a mix of intercept and directed ranged artillery attack. Just depends on the situation.
Jagger2002
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Jagger2002 »

Also there is certain information I would like to see when selecting artillery units in the ranged fire window. In particular, available supply but also readiness. I often find myself bouncing in and out of the ranged fire window to check artillery unit supply status, readiness, LOS and recon levels, etc. It would be nice if some of that info like readiness and supply status was available in the ranged fire window so that I wouldn't find myself going in and out of the ranged fire window as often.
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Vic
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Vic »

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002

Also there is certain information I would like to see when selecting artillery units in the ranged fire window. In particular, available supply but also readiness. I often find myself bouncing in and out of the ranged fire window to check artillery unit supply status, readiness, LOS and recon levels, etc. It would be nice if some of that info like readiness and supply status was available in the ranged fire window so that I wouldn't find myself going in and out of the ranged fire window as often.

Did you try the "map" button in the combat setup popup?

Best wishes,
Vic
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Jagger2002
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RE: Effects of steady artillery use/fire?

Post by Jagger2002 »

Did you try the "map" button in the combat setup popup?

Best wishes,
Vic

Yes, I use it regularly but I find myself leaving it to double check supply levels and readiness of in range artillery units regularly. The question is whether it is better to use them immediately or let them rest for a turn. So often I find myself going back in forth between the combat setup and dropping out back to the regular map to see the counter info.
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