Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive is the fourth wargame in the Decisive Campaign series. Covering the battles in the Ardennes between December 1944 and January 1945, it brings to life Operational wargaming by lowering the scale to just above tactical level.

Moderators: Vic, Decisive Campaigns Ardennes Offensive Mods

Post Reply
Octavian
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:33 am

Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by Octavian »

Right now, it doesn´t make any difference movement-wise to move a unit hex by hex, but
it helps to lessen the chance to be ambushed significantly, because with every hex moved you get new data about your surrounding.
This may lead cautious players to use a (sort of gamey) hex-by-hex movement strategy, since there is no penalty to do this, although this is a bit challenging and burdensome.
In my view, the game should make a cautious approach more costly than a quick (and more dangerous) "rush". An easy solution to this problem might be the following: After the first movement of a unit in a turn, make every further movement action, i.e. stop during movement (regardless of the number of hexes moved) more costly (I´d say by roughly 5 MP per "stop"). By this simple measure, a more cautious moement approach would make a unit slightly slower, which is exactly what it would be "in real life".



Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4809
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: Octavian

Right now, it doesn´t make any difference movement-wise to move a unit hex by hex, but
it helps to lessen the chance to be ambushed significantly, because with every hex moved you get new data about your surrounding.
This may lead cautious players to use a (sort of gamey) hex-by-hex movement strategy, since there is no penalty to do this, although this is a bit challenging and burdensome.
In my view, the game should make a cautious approach more costly than a quick (and more dangerous) "rush". An easy solution to this problem might be the following: After the first movement of a unit in a turn, make every further movement action, i.e. stop during movement (regardless of the number of hexes moved) more costly (I´d say by roughly 5 MP per "stop"). By this simple measure, a more cautious moement approach would make a unit slightly slower, which is exactly what it would be "in real life".



Not necessarily gamey at all. The AI does it as well. The cautious approach is also simulated in WinSPWW2 and it is actually realistic.

Klink, Oberst
[left]My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
JacquesDeLalaing
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:12 am

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by JacquesDeLalaing »

I also don't consider this gamey at all.
It would be unrealistic if units stumbled into ambushes every time they moved more than 1km in 6 hours (1 turn).

In difficult terrain, you still need to put some extra effort in, as simply moving adjacent to a hex will not suffice to spot enemy units. You'll need to use recce cards or probes (which use APs...).
Octavian
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:33 am

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by Octavian »

I am not convinced by the pure fact, that an other game also handles movement like this.

My point is: if you want to rush, you have to take a certain risk. If you are cautiously proceeding (like in a hex to hex style or something alike) you need more time. Gamewise more time is translated to more AP used.
So, it would be consequently handled - at least in my humble view - if you had to spend slightly more APs for being safer (I am not saying totally safe). It would add some realism, where now, you just can use hex by hex approach for free, instead of risking something for a fast ride.
The idea to just add 5 or so AP for each subsequent move in a unit´s turn would be an easy and flexible way to achieve that.


Octavian
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:33 am

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by Octavian »

..and a happy new Year to all you wargaming folks around..[:)]
GulHollow
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:02 pm

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by GulHollow »

I don't think there is a difference between moving one hex at a time or moving all the way at once. My units sometimes get into ambushes when moving one hex at a time, they also stop all movement when they successfully spot an enemy directly ahead on their path while on a long march.
User avatar
Vic
Posts: 8338
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:17 pm
Contact:

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by Vic »

ORIGINAL: Octavian
Right now, it doesn´t make any difference movement-wise to move a unit hex by hex, but
it helps to lessen the chance to be ambushed significantly, because with every hex moved you get new data about your surrounding.

The recon should be updated every hex step when moving multiple hexes in 1 go. If a unit is spotted on direct path it will stop instead of walking into ambush.

best wishes,
Vic
Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics
JacquesDeLalaing
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:12 am

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by JacquesDeLalaing »

For me, a reckless approach is represented in DC:Ardennes by moving into unrecced (hidepoints > recon points) hexes, moving over open terrain that is probably in sight of the enemy (arty intercept fire risk) or attacking into an unidentified enemy unit (without probing). Might end up fine, might end up fatal. There is plenty of risk.

Also, if you move very far, your units (particularly non-mot./mech.) will suffer a bigger loss of combat readiness, which is particularly important in offensive combat and will over time reduce your unit's APs.
beyondwudge
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:33 pm

RE: Gamey movement tactics and a possible solution

Post by beyondwudge »

I think in a Vic designed game, when he wants to model a new kind of movement he likes to implement it as a new type like March or a new mode like Strategic move in Shadow Empire.

In a way, what Octavian is suggesting is actually a more gamey approach to handling movement, by attempting to increase the impact of player technique on the outcome of the basic movement order.

BTW, I mostly move my units hex-by-hex until I'm sure of the potential for intercept fire on a given path. It lets me simulate giving an order to backpedal or stop if something unexpected happens, like a new enemy is spotted or an intercept fire does too much damage. It does take longer, but it really isn't much of a chore, at least for me. When I was much younger, playing a game like Panzer General, I could see how it could be a bit much to do. I'm glad Vic has considered a wide range of players in how he's coded the logic.
Post Reply

Return to “Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive”