Orbat Questions

WarPlan Pacific is an operational level wargame which covers all the nations at war in the Pacific theatre from December 1941 to 1945 on a massive game scale.

Moderator: AlvaroSousa

Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

First off I must say that I love the way Alvaro has designed the system. It is sleek, elegant, and quite fun.

However, the Orbats of the US and other nations are concerning to me. Even at the scale that I see, AKA reducing the actual number of counters required by consolidating the ships and such there are still quite a few discrepancies that I have noticed. As an example I will use the USN's Asiatic Fleet based out of the P.I.

Below is the orbat that I have drawn up to reflect the actual units assigned to the Asiatic Fleet on 7 Dec, 1941.

Edit: See below for full Orbat
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

See Below for Full Orbat.

First up are the Destroyer Divisions.

Destroyer Division Fifty-Seven - - Balikpapan, Borneo
Destroyer Division Fifty-Eight - - Tarakan, Borneo
Destroyer Division Fifty-Nine - - Manila, Pi

These DesDivs are not even the game. By the scale I see in it there should be a DD Group at those locations.

Then we have Patrol Wing Ten - - Cavite, Pi. Not in the game.

Now for the subs. We can see that SubDivs 21 and 22 are in the game. However, SubDivs 201, 202, and 203 are not in the game.

Then the Houston's Sqdn should be on the Western Viscayas Island.

My question is why these units are not in the game? Was if for play balance reasons?

Cheers, Thor
User avatar
AlvaroSousa
Posts: 10196
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:13 pm
Contact:

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Keep posting the rest and I will take a look. I am a 1 man show and sometimes I miss things.
Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3
Nikel
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:51 am

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Nikel »

ORIGINAL: Thorgrimm

First off I must say that I love the way Alvaro has designed the system. It is sleek, elegant, and quite fun.

However, the Orbats of the US and other nations are concerning to me. Even at the scale that I see, AKA reducing the actual number of counters required by consolidating the ships and such there are still quite a few discrepancies that I have noticed. As an example I will use the USN's Asiatic Fleet based out of the P.I.

Put some links to OOBs from the PWOE in the thread below, just in case they are useful.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5100585
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Alvaro, I most certainly will. [:)] Right now I am doing up a complete US Philippine orbat for 7, Dec. Hopefully I will have it completed by today.

I hope I am not being too forward, but I would be happy to volunteer and help you with orbat research and creation. Including to any revision of the current orbats that you would like to have done.

The reason I am making this offer is that I like the WP games so much that, even with Aspergers, I am willing to overcome my fears and help to make a great series even better.


Nikel, I wish that I could. What I do is search the net for data, copy what I need, and then move on not saving the links. My orbats are individually handcrafted by me, and as such are not on the net. Or am I misunderstanding something?

As a question, is there a way to attach txt files to a post?

Cheers, Thorgrimm
Nikel
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:51 am

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Nikel »

ORIGINAL: Thorgrimm


Nikel, I wish that I could. What I do is search the net for data, copy what I need, and then move on not saving the links. My orbats are individually handcrafted by me, and as such are not on the net. Or am I misunderstanding something?

As a question, is there a way to attach txt files to a post?

Cheers, Thorgrimm



Hi. Just said that I had put some links in that thread to orders of battles from The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia, a reference site, perhaps you know it.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/J/a/Japanes ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/U/s/US_Order_of_Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/N/e/Netherl ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/B/r/British ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/A/u/Austral ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/N/e/New_Zea ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Canadia ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/u/Kuomint ... Battle.htm

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/h/Chinese ... Battle.htm

http://niehorster.org/600_pto/41-12-07_pacific.htm


Txt files are allowed, just upload as a pic and embed in post.


Attachments
Test.txt
(5 Bytes) Downloaded 1 time
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Nikel, yeah I did misunderstand. Sorry about that. And yeah, those links are one of the many sites that I acquired my data from. What I do is research the data, then reorganize into a better format. [:)]

For example, those links provide excellent data on the units arrival and such, but is skimpy on other details that I like. So I have to cross reference many, many different sites. I usually try not to use any data unless I can verify it on at least three other sites. [:)]

And I must apologize for the first two links. The data was obtained from one of my older, and non-updated files. Hence why I am recreating them on the fly today.

Thanks for the info on the txt file uploading.

When I finish the Filipino Orbat I will post it as a txt file here. [:)]

Cheers, Thor
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

I finished the US Filipino orbat. If anybody notices any inaccuracies by all means let me know. [:)]

Comments are most welcome.

Cheers, Thor
Attachments
USPhilipp..t1941.txt
(11.38 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
User avatar
Lascar
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 8:00 am

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Lascar »

Thanks for the good work and contribution. The more accurate the order of battle the more immersive the game becomes.
User avatar
Meteor2
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: Germany

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Meteor2 »

Thanks for the work, Thorgrimm.
Hopefully Alvaro can use this to bis advantage. This is not WitP, but for the purpose of „immersion“ he should use, what he can.
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Thanks for the compliments guys, they really inspire me.

With the scale that Alvaro has in the WP games it is easy to convert that orbat to his scale. For example, a Destroyer Division would be 1 DD Group in the game. If I have the scale correct that is. [:)]

As an example, the Destroyers Asiatic Fleet would convert as the following:

Code: Select all

 Destroyers Asiatic Fleet - Manila, Pi - Cpt. H. A. Wiley
    1) Destroyer Division Fifty-Seven (DesDiv-57) - Balikpapan, Borneo - Lt. Cdr. E. M. Crouch
    2) Destroyer Division Fifty-Eight (DesDiv-58) - Tarakan, Borneo - Cdr. T. H. Binford
    3) Destroyer Division Fifty-Nine (DesDiv-59 - Manila, Pi - Cdr. P. H. Talbot

Cheers, Thor
User avatar
AlvaroSousa
Posts: 10196
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:13 pm
Contact:

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by AlvaroSousa »

My OOB was taken from WITP BTW.

Just get me a simple list of X # of DDs at Z hex and I will look into it. Otherwise I will decipher this data how I see fit and we will have this conversation again in a month when people disagree with my changes.
Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Alvaro, will do. Hopefully I can have it converted to WPP's format by tomorrow. [:)]

Cheers, Thor
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Alvaro, I finished the Asiatic Fleet conversion. If you approve the format I will finish the Filipino orbat. [:)]

I just want to make sure that is the way you want the data before continuing.

Cheers, Thor
Attachments
USAsiatic..nversion.txt
(815 Bytes) Downloaded 14 times
User avatar
MarechalJoffre
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:51 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by MarechalJoffre »

Thorgrimm, this is a great body of work. Perhaps you should consider uploading it to a website so it reaches a wider audience?
User avatar
ncc1701e
Posts: 7900
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by ncc1701e »

Since we are talking OOB, here is a proposal to change the RN, RAN and RNZN navies in the Pacific 1941 scenario.

On map at start

UK:
Change UK. Hermes CVL Sqd from Carrier Operations 1941 to Carrier Operations 1939
Change UK. Revenge BB Sqd from Warships 1941 to Warships 1939
Add UK. Dorsetshire CA Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 14, 50
Add UK. Warspite BB Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 194, 94

New Zealand:
Add New. RNZN CL/DD Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 120, 4

Australia:
Add Aus. RAN CL/DD Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 93, 6

* * *

Arrival January 15, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Indomitable CV Sqd with Carrier Operations 1940

* * *

Arrival February 14, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Change UK. Ramillies BB Sqd from Warships 1942 to Warships 1939
Add UK. Royal Sovereign BB Sqd with Warships 1939
Add UK. Resolution BB Sqd with Warships 1939

* * *

Arrival March 14, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Formidable CV Sqd with Carrier Operations 1940
Remove UK. Valiant BB Sqd arrival at this date (will come later)

*

Arrival August 10, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Glasgow CA Sqd arrival at this date. The Glasgow was a light cruiser by the way.

* * *

Arrival January 19, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Queen Elizabeth BB Sqd with Warships 1942

* * *

Arrival March 15, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Formidable CV Sqd since already on the map at this stage

* * *

Arrival March 21, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Valiant BB Sqd with Warships 1942
Add UK. Renown BC Sqd with Warships 1942

* * *

Arrival November 21, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Leviathan CV Sqd (was never in the Pacific)
Remove UK. Ark Royal CV Sqd (was never in the Pacific)
Correct the spelling mistake for UK. Vengence CVL Sqd. The correct spelling is Vengeance CVL Sqd

For review... [;)]
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

Alvaro, here is the US Filipino Orbat converted to WPP format. If you have any questions by all means, ask. If you are ok with this and approve it, I will begin working on the US West Coast. [:)]

MarechalJoffre, you should see my Orbat for 7 May, 1945 Western Allies, Europe... At the Bn level. [:D]

As an aside, I love to create Orbats. To me it is a hobby that I am very passionate about. I have a hard drive full of orbats that I have made. In point of fact, my very first post, anywhere on the net, was a Napoleonic Orbat on the Civ 3 forums at the civ-fanatics website.

As a question about Naval organization, is it CA's and above that have their own counter? And CVL's and above for carriers that have their own counters?

Cheers, Thorgrimm
Attachments
US Filipin..nversion.txt
(1.81 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

As a fun post and a sneak peak into what will be added, if Alvaro approves, is the USAAF 14th Air Force in May 1945.

BTW, the 14th was headquartered at Kunming China. [:)]

Cheers, Thorgrimm
Attachments
14thAirF..May1945.txt
(2.89 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Thorgrimm
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by Thorgrimm »

I do not know if this is the right place, but since other orbats have been posted, I felt that it was ok. If Alvaro has any problems with my posting orbats here I will remove them ASAP. [:)]

My current project is an orbat for the US on 1 Sept, 1939. US orbats for 7 Dec, 1941 are a dime a dozen. Not so much for Sept 39. There may be a piece here and there, scattered in and around posts, but no definitive sources. So I thought I would create one. [:)]

So far I have the US Navy, Air Corps, and USMC pretty much nailed down. I am now working on the US Army ground forces. Attached below is the first draft of the US Army Orbat for the Hawaiian Department.

Comments are welcome, and if anybody sees an error by all means point it out!

Cheers, Thor
Attachments
HawaiianD..ep1939.txt
(5.16 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
User avatar
AlvaroSousa
Posts: 10196
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:13 pm
Contact:

RE: Orbat Questions

Post by AlvaroSousa »

You can post them here. Just remember WPP is a corp level game. So small tiny details are abstracted into counters.

What I am looking for is grouping of ships at locations. If it is large enough I put a counter. If it is not I abstract it to a location as a group of these units.
Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3
Post Reply

Return to “Warplan Pacific”