Making the last Beta Official

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

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Jellicoe
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Jellicoe »

Dear Erik

Thank you for doing this. Much appreciated.

I would very much appreciate Tracker being folded in - it would make playing Japan that much more accessible
Andy Mac's additional AI scripts
The Dababes scenarios - for the improved AA and for the ship database alone (how can people live without access to 15inch gun monitors?)
The extended map

As for glitches the one that irritates me the most is one that Hans Bolter has already referenced. When you select a task force in a hex with multiple taskforces it will automatically take you to the last one on the list until you come out and click again to get the correct taskforce. A real pain when you are prepping one of the big allied late war amphibious armadas

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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Ian R »

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: Tanaka




This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?


Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.


This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122
9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... ey=�


First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.





"I am Alfred"
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Trugrit
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Trugrit »


Tanaka,

I don’t see this as a bug.

I think the game models the Air Transport Command very well.
Some of it of course is in the game like the Burma “Hump” but much of
it is abstracted and beneath the surface.

The way the Air Transport Command moved pilots is modeled well.

A single pilot would often have to wait, sometimes days, until a scheduled
transport mission was ready to go to or near his destination. If it was near
his destination he might have to wait again for another scheduled flight.

If there was a group of pilots moving there would be enough of a demand to
schedule a separate flight for them. If an air group had a need for multiple pilots
that would create enough of a demand to move them quickly.

You should read up on the service:
https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/edit ... d-war-ii-1

This game is very complex.

"A man's got to know his limitations" -Dirty Harry
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Trugrit
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Trugrit »

I think what you really need to do is re-master the games editor.
The editor right now is very “clunky”.

If you re-designed the editor it could be a plug-in and function as the front end for the game.

Michaelm has already shown the way with how the Beta functions.
Right now the Beta is functioning as a stand alone plug-in that modifies
the existing game.

The editor could be re-designed to be a lot more user friendly with more functions.

If the editor had the ability to examine the individual players computer system
and configure the games parameters based on that it would be a big step forward.
You punch a button and the computer tells you what the optimum configuration is
for your computer and display and could then apply it. A player would still retain the
Ability to modify that.

With internet technology there is the ability in a re-designed editor to go out
over the internet and grab the mods and art a player wants and import them in and
configure them all through the editor.

That way you would not add substantially to the games initial download or disk.

The mods and art could reside at one place on a Matrix server or multiple servers
and could be updated there by the mod makers. The player could then get the most
up to date mod or art with a simple download without having to go to Google or
Dropbox or wherever and try to figure out how get it to work.

This model works fairly well on a platform like Steam.

Then, clean up the games front end and update the auto-run to link the player to the
re-designed editor where he can configure and mod the game.

That way new players and players who are not technology able would have a front end way
to enter the game and older players like me could still enter the game from the back end if we desired.

In Game:

Of course clean up the few bugs.

Also, it would be really helpful if the game had it’s own built in magnifier for full screen
that could be toggled on and off in game to zoom in and out on the map and screens.

For the manual, I think the best option is not to try and rewrite the manual but to
highlight it and annotate it with fly outs. Manual mistakes could be corrected this
way without having to rework the entire manual.

This ability already exists somewhat in Adobe Acrobat Reader.
I’ve done some of this to my own manual
(As Shown Below)

Comments can be added to the PDF but they have a limited length in Acrobat.
Forum links could be added which would expand that ability and allow the player
to go directly to the correct forum post without doing a search for it.

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"A man's got to know his limitations" -Dirty Harry
actrade
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by actrade »

As someone who just bought the game on sale (as will many I assume), I had to go through all the hoops to get the game running well, including the beta, command line switches etc. found in this post, which was very helpful for me. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4916799

The only mod I'm running is the Kamikaze Extended map, which I find incredibly helpful as well. It would be a great time for Matrix to update the installer to beta and/or add this map to make it much easier on those of us just buying the game!
actrade
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by actrade »

I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.
Panjack
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Panjack »

RE
ORIGINAL: Trugrit
For the manual, I think the best option is not to try and rewrite the manual but to
highlight it and annotate it with fly outs. Manual mistakes could be corrected this
way without having to rework the entire manual.

This ability already exists somewhat in Adobe Acrobat Reader.
I’ve done some of this to my own manual
(As Shown Below)

Comments can be added to the PDF but they have a limited length in Acrobat.
Forum links could be added which would expand that ability and allow the player
to go directly to the correct forum post without doing a search for it.
Image
I've played with adding "sticky notes" (and links to internet material) to the manual, which is one reasonable way to add information. One downside, though, is that I don't think you can search for text that appears in sticky notes, which limits its usefulness.

However, the work involved in adding sticky notes (and Internet links) is much less than any other way of updating the manual. And, an imperfect, but quick, way of updating the manual is better than a perfect rewrite (that takes years to appear).
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RangerJoe
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by RangerJoe »

This project will not make a new manual That would be an entirely different project for a new manual.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child

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Tanaka
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Tanaka »

ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: Tanaka
ORIGINAL: Ian R





Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.


This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122
9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... ey=�


First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.






No I was just referring to the 2020 thread by GetAssist: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122

Thanks for the update. Glad to know the "Get Veteran" vs "Get Pilots" is working correctly. I had read in other threads and posts people mentioning this as an issue. Sometimes in the bajillion WITPAE threads you read you recall reading people mentioning different potential bugs and this is one I remembered hearing about several times so just thought I would bring it up it for discussion. Just discussing not interested in a fight with you analyzing every single post and date. I'm no expert on the game and have never claimed to be.

Not personally attacking Alfred. Just stating the facts of the question asked. The evidence and reputation on the forum speaks for itself. I appreciate his contributions and would be happy to have him around if he followed forum rules. But we all know that is not his nature and he has no reputation for doing so.
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Macquarrie1999 »

ORIGINAL: actrade

I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.

Unfortunately if I turn this off the lag becomes unbearable, so I just have to put up with the bleed through.
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John 3rd
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by John 3rd »

Am not on the Forum often right now but am very excited to see this thread.

Michael's comment about bases flipping ownership with nothing in them is very important. If the enemy has abandoned the base and is not there, then moving into the base SHOULD not cause damage to it.

Using DaBabes for scenario choice expansion is a solid idea. I really think that adding several of the home grown short Mods would be a good idea for helping new players learning curve. Really wouldn't recommend the big, revamped specialty Mods. Only players who have mastered the 'generic/vanilla' scenarios would have a real interest in heavily modded scenarios (like any of Michael and Mine plus many others). Might be wrong saying that but...

I greatly appreciated anything Alfred had to say. Always knew where he was coming from and what he was thinking. Nothing wrong with that.
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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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RangerJoe
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Am not on the Forum often right now but am very excited to see this thread.

Michael's comment about bases flipping ownership with nothing in them is very important. If the enemy has abandoned the base and is not there, then moving into the base SHOULD not cause damage to it.

Using DaBabes for scenario choice expansion is a solid idea. I really think that adding several of the home grown short Mods would be a good idea for helping new players learning curve. Really wouldn't recommend the big, revamped specialty Mods. Only players who have mastered the 'generic/vanilla' scenarios would have a real interest in heavily modded scenarios (like any of Michael and Mine plus many others). Might be wrong saying that but...

I greatly appreciated anything Alfred had to say. Always knew where he was coming from and what he was thinking. Nothing wrong with that.

Not bug fixes for this.

But that sounds like a nice way to trash Palembang - just evacuate it!
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child

actrade
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by actrade »

ORIGINAL: Macquarrie1999

ORIGINAL: actrade

I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.

Unfortunately if I turn this off the lag becomes unbearable, so I just have to put up with the bleed through.

If you play in windows mode you don't have bleed. use the -wd instead of -fd switch
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HansBolter
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: actrade

ORIGINAL: Macquarrie1999

ORIGINAL: actrade

I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.

Unfortunately if I turn this off the lag becomes unbearable, so I just have to put up with the bleed through.

If you play in windows mode you don't have bleed. use the -wd instead of -fd switch

I will never play in windowed mode. Just a personal choice.

I did, however, experiment with removing the -dd_sw switch and have not experienced any bleed through, even of the kind I described about the combat report, in a limited test run. Also have not experienced any lag from the deletion of the switch.

So, thank you to the one who clued me in to deleting the switch.
Have been running the same switches for a very long time without any experimentation.
Hans

Panjack
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Panjack »

Erik,

Thanks.
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We did use InDesign, but frankly I'm not sure if the files are still available. I'll have a look around.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: Tanaka
ORIGINAL: Ian R





Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.


This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122
9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... ey=�


First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.






It drives me insane when people say "refer to post number 3" without just... citing the relevant part of the post. At least give us a quote so we have some idea WTF you're referring to and how it supports your argument, please. Not only is it better for us, but it actually serves your argument better, too, and more people will probably listen to what you have to say because they don't have to click fourteen bajillion links and then scroll to find the post number that you already found but didn't have the decency to cite for them. Geez.



To the point of this one: there is in fact a bug/workaround/exploit (whatever you want to call it) where you can avoid the days/week-long delay and experience loss by adding a pilot using the buttons instead of clicking on the pilot directly.

TBH, I'm not sure whether this is intended or not. It's not really a big deal either way, except for those whose first inclination is to click on the individual pilots instead of sorting and using "release" for the top 1 or top 5 pilots that they've sorted for.
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Tanaka
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Tanaka »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: Tanaka



This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122



First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.






It drives me insane when people say "refer to post number 3" without just... citing the relevant part of the post. At least give us a quote so we have some idea WTF you're referring to and how it supports your argument, please. Not only is it better for us, but it actually serves your argument better, too, and more people will probably listen to what you have to say because they don't have to click fourteen bajillion links and then scroll to find the post number that you already found but didn't have the decency to cite for them. Geez.



To the point of this one: there is in fact a bug/workaround/exploit (whatever you want to call it) where you can avoid the days/week-long delay and experience loss by adding a pilot using the buttons instead of clicking on the pilot directly.

TBH, I'm not sure whether this is intended or not. It's not really a big deal either way, except for those whose first inclination is to click on the individual pilots instead of sorting and using "release" for the top 1 or top 5 pilots that they've sorted for.

Could not agree more on the post referencing haha.

Thanks for the reminder yes that is what I had read about it I just could not remember the exact threads. I searched and searched to find it again but could not.

Yes that if you click on the specific pilot name you get delays but if you add in pilots by groups you don't get a delay. That was the bug/exploit I was referencing I had heard about in this instance. Seems like whether you click on the specific name or the add group it should be the same delay. Thanks for the clarification!
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by SuluSea »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Am not on the Forum often right now but am very excited to see this thread.

Michael's comment about bases flipping ownership with nothing in them is very important. If the enemy has abandoned the base and is not there, then moving into the base SHOULD not cause damage to it.

Using DaBabes for scenario choice expansion is a solid idea. I really think that adding several of the home grown short Mods would be a good idea for helping new players learning curve. Really wouldn't recommend the big, revamped specialty Mods. Only players who have mastered the 'generic/vanilla' scenarios would have a real interest in heavily modded scenarios (like any of Michael and Mine plus many others). Might be wrong saying that but...

I greatly appreciated anything Alfred had to say. Always knew where he was coming from and what he was thinking. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, I miss Alfred's contributions too, not that I need them to play but he was always good reading and helpful.

I wouldn't blame him if the guy stayed away, it looked like a number of parties casting vague insults, one person got upset (probably a party that has been involved with differences with Alfred in the past) reported it and then only ONE person gets 'shamed' for the event.



"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Ian R »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


To the point of this one: there is in fact a bug/workaround/exploit (whatever you want to call it) where you can avoid the days/week-long delay and experience loss by adding a pilot using the buttons instead of clicking on the pilot directly.

To demonstrate that is not correct, I ran a test inside my current game, adding pilots by using the group buttons. It reproduced the result seen (by me, and I expect others) hundreds, and possibly thousands of times before. You might note I used a group in Palembang, about as far from San Fransisco as you can get, and overfilled it (which you can only do if some incoming pilots are delayed).

I emptied the pilots out of a fighter group, and then filled it with fighter pilots from the fighter subsection of the reserve pool, sorted by air-air skill, and using the add 10 button to take them in groups. Here is the result- some arrive straight away, some are delayed by varying numbers of days.

The Group:

Image


Pilot delays after emptying & refilling the group:

Image

Has it occurred to you fellows that if you just grab whatever the exe wants to give you via the buttons on the group screen (e.g. the 'any' button), or reserve pool screen, without any filtering, it gives you the ones most readily available, without sorting them other than (possibly) by experience? Looks WAD.

Further, if you filter the reserve pool to only fighter pilots, and then put them into fighter class airframes, there is no experience loss (c.f. the posts from Alfred and WITPQS already linked in above posts). So that is also WAD.


There is in fact no bug.



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Lokasenna
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RE: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


To the point of this one: there is in fact a bug/workaround/exploit (whatever you want to call it) where you can avoid the days/week-long delay and experience loss by adding a pilot using the buttons instead of clicking on the pilot directly.

To demonstrate that is not correct, I ran a test inside my current game, adding pilots by using the group buttons. It reproduced the result seen (by me, and I expect others) hundreds, and possibly thousands of times before. You might note I used a group in Palembang, about as far from San Fransisco as you can get, and overfilled it (which you can only do if some incoming pilots are delayed).

I emptied the pilots out of a fighter group, and then filled it with fighter pilots from the fighter subsection of the reserve pool, sorted by air-air skill, and using the add 10 button to take them in groups. Here is the result- some arrive straight away, some are delayed by varying numbers of days.

The Group:

Image


Pilot delays after emptying & refilling the group:

Image

Has it occurred to you fellows that if you just grab whatever the exe wants to give you via the buttons on the group screen (e.g. the 'any' button), or reserve pool screen, without any filtering, it gives you the ones most readily available, without sorting them other than (possibly) by experience? Looks WAD.

Further, if you filter the reserve pool to only fighter pilots, and then put them into fighter class airframes, there is no experience loss (c.f. the posts from Alfred and WITPQS already linked in above posts). So that is also WAD.


OK, so you're quibbling that sometimes, some pilots will be delayed by a few days if you use the mass release button method (I'm sure there's a method to this madness, i.e. a reason that occurs for those pilots, but I haven't sorted out why because it doesn't really matter).

That's kinda missing the point/question of whether those that arrive with no delay (which is the vast majority of those pilots) is intended or not. Saying "oh that must just be WAD" is... Well, has it occurred to you that you're just ignoring or not comprehending what we're saying?

Not to mention the experience penalty thing... I forgot to check whether that applied (read: I actually don't care because it wouldn't make a difference in my pilot choices, which are 100% ruthless in terms of "how can I best beat your pants off"). But oh hey I just went to test it to make sure my memory was correct, and whattaya know... Watch me add fighter pilots to a bomber unit using the "release pilots" button(s) without suffering any experience loss.

Image

Oh yeah, they also arrived with no delay (remember that delay 1 = just needs to be turned active)! Golly gee whiz.

How do I know this? Because I often empty and re-fill attack bomber units specifically with fighter pilots with high strafe skill and do so with zero delay, teleporting high strafing pilots from a training unit in California to a front line unit in Port Darwin with no experience loss to boot.
ORIGINAL: Ian R

There is in fact no bug.

There's either no bug(s), or the instruction/documentation is incorrect. Pick one. Literally mutually exclusive.
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