The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

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Sir.Arnold
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The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by Sir.Arnold »

The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

The picture shows that the total number of Soviet personnel is only 12646, and Ground Elements is only 1341, but they were Disrupted 15642 and 1797.

So there's definitely a bug



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Sir.Arnold
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by Sir.Arnold »

Battle details


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loki100
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

The picture shows that the total number of Soviet personnel is only 12646, and Ground Elements is only 1341, but they were Disrupted 15642 and 1797.

So there's definitely a bug
...

WAD - a given element can be disrupted any number of times in a battle
DeletedUser44
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by DeletedUser44 »

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

The picture shows that the total number of Soviet personnel is only 12646, and Ground Elements is only 1341, but they were Disrupted 15642 and 1797.

So there's definitely a bug
...

WAD - a given element can be disrupted any number of times in a battle

I wasn't aware of this either.

Is this true for "Damaged" or "Destroyed"? Have no idea at this point.

So, you have a combat results view, that lists a column labeled "Ground Elements".

Then it further breaks it down by "Destroyed" / "Damaged" / "Disrupted".

But for "Disrupted", the number isn't the number of "Ground Elements" disrupted at all, but is the total number of times any "Ground Element" suffered a "Disrupted" result? Correct?

So that number of '1797' could, theoretically, have all happened against the same "Ground Element"? Meaning (in this extreme case) that only 1 Ground Element is actually disrupted (just was disrupted 1797 times)?

This is completely unexpected. You sure this is WAD?
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loki100
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by loki100 »

if an element is disrupted and hit again, its more likely to become damaged or destroyed but it can simply be disrupted again ... and again ... and again. I believe that experience and morale come into play here so a strong element can absorb more disruptions (on average) than a weak one.

If an element is destroyed that can only happen once.

Yes its both WAD and explained in the manual, along with how the losses number is calculated and then recalculated as the turn progresses.
DeletedUser44
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by DeletedUser44 »

ORIGINAL: loki100

if an element is disrupted and hit again, its more likely to become damaged or destroyed but it can simply be disrupted again ... and again ... and again. I believe that experience and morale come into play here so a strong element can absorb more disruptions (on average) than a weak one.

If an element is destroyed that can only happen once.

Yes its both WAD and explained in the manual, along with how the losses number is calculated and then recalculated as the turn progresses.

I believe I was aware of how the combat system worked. Was not aware of how the results of the combat were being presented though.

So, all the 'hoopla' about number of "disruptions" may have been a bit overblown?

For clarification, if an element is "disrupted", and then subsequently "damaged", and finally ultimately "destroyed". How would this be displayed?

Would that ground element be included in all three categories of "disrupted" / "damaged" / "destroyed" ?

Or would it only be listed as "destroyed" ?

Thank you for your time on this....

EDIT:

I believe what you are describing, may be accurate, but is not documented in this manner in the manual - thus contributing to the confusion.
4.8.4. Interpreting the Combat Result
The battle report (37.1) will indicate the losses suffered
by both sides and it is possible to open up other tabs to
explore the battle in more detail.
The example above is the report for the Soviet attack
discussed in 4.8.2. At first only the top screens will be
shown giving you a quick overview of what happened.
If you press the option to ‘show details’ then the display
shown will appear (here clicking on hide details will remove
the extra information).
How to interpret this information (and the other tabs) is
discussed in sections 23.10 and 37.1. For the moment, note
that across the top you have the numbers of men involved,
the changes from the at-start to end of battle CVs (so the
German division dropped from 93 to 22), how many units
were involved (both on map and as support units) and how
many elements were disrupted, damaged or destroyed.


Of importance is the last sentence. Which was my understanding, as well as I believed was Sir.Arnold's (given the bug report).

It is documented as "how many elements were disrupted" and not "number of total disruptions", which we are in agreement can be very different.

I understand how complex the game is and the difficulties it imposes on the documentation in the game manual. But I believe there is some room for correction to the manual - or - adjustments to the Combat Results view to bring it in sync with the manual. (I personally would prefer the latter, as I don't care how many times an element was disrupted, but in "total number of disrupted elements".)
IDGBIA
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by IDGBIA »

The disruption counter might overcount a bit but his cv still dropped all the way down to 4 almost everything in the division was disrupted. even if there is double counting the disruption is still very high and soviets dont even fire back when with initial odds you'd expect at least a little bit of a fight
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Joel Billings
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RE: The number of disrupted exceeds the total number of engagements

Post by Joel Billings »

We're aware of this and I've added it to the bug list.
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
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