towed AT guns on attack

Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive is the fourth wargame in the Decisive Campaign series. Covering the battles in the Ardennes between December 1944 and January 1945, it brings to life Operational wargaming by lowering the scale to just above tactical level.

Moderators: Vic, Decisive Campaigns Ardennes Offensive Mods

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garga3
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:13 pm

towed AT guns on attack

Post by garga3 »

Why AT guns cant kill a single truck on attack?

It seems all its kill hits get converted to
"Result of attack is the penalties of RETREAT" (it doesnt even count as RETREAT).

It can still cause a pin or forced retreat, but never a kill; a PAK75/88mm cant kill a single truck.. if attacking. (testing on defense is not so easy for me).

So towed AT guns are completely useless on attack.

And for the ones who dont understand the question, here is the wiki that can help you a little:
https://www.vrdesigns.net/atwiki/doku.p ... gine_rules
Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4809
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
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RE: towed AT guns on attack

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: garga3

Why AT guns cant kill a single truck on attack?

It seems all its kill hits get converted to
"Result of attack is the penalties of RETREAT" (it doesnt even count as RETREAT).

It can still cause a pin or forced retreat, but never a kill; a PAK75/88mm cant kill a single truck.. if attacking. (testing on defense is not so easy for me).

So towed AT guns are completely useless on attack.

And for the ones who dont understand the question, here is the wiki that can help you a little:
https://www.vrdesigns.net/atwiki/doku.p ... gine_rules
Got a save game file where one could test it?

Klink, Oberst
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garga3
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:13 pm

RE: towed AT guns on attack

Post by garga3 »

I made a small scenario to test it and it turns out this is the result of a retreat hit on an already retreating enemy. There are kills there.

However the 4kills 16 pins 10retreats seems like 1-3-2 pattern type used by arty usually. I was probably just unlucky several times before and got no kills at all and everybody retreated on time. (Note that pak guns are usually not that numerous, and i never knew their purpose is to suppress and pin).

This pattern is just hilarious. It is funny to score 40 hits with paks75 on trucks and greyhounds, kill 0 and force them to retreat :-). (well on my last test at least i got 4/30).

It seems this pattern is given to all paks(except the 88mm,122mm paks), flak, pioneers, ss pioneers, staff and poor infantry and antitank; but not to panzergrens, jager tanks, brumbar; which makes the first terribly bad in combat compared to the latest.
Also almost all arty but the 122mm_R and 152mm_R (it is the ArtCode1,2,3 right?).

I think something is messed.

I can send you the scenario but i need an email
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Vic
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:17 pm
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RE: towed AT guns on attack

Post by Vic »

Artillery Gun hit: 12% kill, 88% pinned
Flak Gun hit: 10% kill, 20% retreat, 70% pinned
AT Gun/Infantry/Tank/etc hit: 12% kill, 38% retreat, 50% pinned

And yes units thus have a tendency to retreat instead of being destroyed.

best,
Vic
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