The Siege of Moscow

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TallBlondJohn
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:40 pm

The Siege of Moscow

Post by TallBlondJohn »

August 1942 and the siege of Moscow enters its second month... I know has been a post asking how to take Moscow but I can't find it (thanks Forum search function [:@]).

But I have found the same problem - assaults on Moscow get hammered, despite up to 100CV face value and all the engineers and heavy artillery I can find. Any ideas?

There are units outside the 3 city fort hexes in a connected pocket to the north - I've taken my time reducing them on the principle that they will be consuming supplies from the city depots. But is this correct?
jubjub
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 12:52 pm

RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by jubjub »

ORIGINAL: TallBlondJohn

August 1942 and the siege of Moscow enters its second month... I know has been a post asking how to take Moscow but I can't find it (thanks Forum search function [:@]).

But I have found the same problem - assaults on Moscow get hammered, despite up to 100CV face value and all the engineers and heavy artillery I can find. Any ideas?

There are units outside the 3 city fort hexes in a connected pocket to the north - I've taken my time reducing them on the principle that they will be consuming supplies from the city depots. But is this correct?

Can you post a detailed combat report of an assault?
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loki100
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RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by loki100 »

You need to run out the supplies in the city, that is likely to be a lot.

In my vs AI game, Leningrad held out isolated for 5-6 months before it collapsed.

Slightly gamey - but bomb the railyard. Not only will this destroy a bit of supply and reduce the feasible size of the depot, the AA fire uses up ammo, so the pocket runs down more quickly
EddyBear81
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RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by EddyBear81 »

But what if you do not have those 5-6 months ? In my GC41 vs AI, I have surrounded Moscow TWICE, and each time the soviet winter offensive relieved it.


I don't believe in long sieges : its better to attack with a full army and rotate the divisions after each attack. You will get a ton of casualties, but it's my best shot...

...which did not succeed (!), but I made some errors along the way (too few divisions)
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loki100
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RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by loki100 »

Given the city fort routines, and that its likely the local depots will be full when you encircle it - I'm really not sure there is a short cut to be honest.

If you catch it unprepared then its feasible but that implies a radical mis-match.

guess that each assault will cost you up near 10,000 men and formations unready (I'm going by my experience with places like Rostov in my last AI game). So if you concentrate and absorb those losses then I guess its feasible

Yogol
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RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by Yogol »

I took Moscow by using three full armies. I always rearrange ALL the units at the start of turn 1 into my own liking.

1) 2nd panzer had 2 full corps with 4 panzers divisions each plus 2 full corps with 5 mechanised infantry each.
2) 3rd panzer was an assault army and had 4 full corps with 5 infantry each, plus 4 engineers per corps.
3) 4th army was also an assault army and had also 4 full corps with 5 infantry each, without engineers.

All the corps had a leader with 6 or more in the infantry or mechanised stat.

The army without engineers were only used to hold back the enemy from the long, long railroad. For Moscow, I used the double railroad Lukow - Ross - Lida - Molodechno - Palotsk - Vitebsk - Smolensk - Durovo - Vyazma - Gzhatsk - Mozhaysk - Kubinka using TWO of the FDB units to repair it and always emergency repair on each and every of those depots.

This is not the railroad that most people use (they seem to prefer the railraod Vilnius - Daugopils - Palotsk - ..., but I use the Vilnius - Daugopils to get to Pskov and then to Leningrad and I don't want to mix those lines. I know that this means that my Moscow line is an extra long one but it works, so...).

Do not bother to advance further then you have depots. Don't do any pockets: just take it slow and make sure all your troops are in good supply all the time.

I break down all the tanks divisions into regiments to guard the flanks when there is a clear hex, a city hex or light woods. I never put them in heavy woods or in swamps and I never attack with them (they break down WAY too fast, lol).

Do not attack with your mechanised infantry either, nor with any infantry with a CV higher than 7. Let the small units fight the cannon folder on the road to Moscow, you'll need those strong troops for the city fort itself.

Once you are near Moscow, it's a hex-per-hex battle. It is tempting to go too fast and use your strong infantry, but don't do that because then that infantry will be too weak to take the formidable Moscow fort.

For Moscow itself, I do not try to cut it off but attack it from the north.
- I take Khimki, the hex east of it and then Mytischi.
- Then I take North Moscow by doing one attack with the weak infantry, just to lower the fortification.
- On the next turn, I attack again with the weak infantry (many of which will be depleted) and then twice with the strong infantry.
- On the turn after that I attack with the strong infantry first and then again twice with the strong infantry and the mechanised together. Moscow falls with that third attack.

Make sure that all your HQs are close: the corps, army, army group and OKH and than your attack is covered by 80 fighters.

I do not use any Support Units except the pioneers I mentioned. I keep all other SUs for 1942 (except the construction to repair the depots). I also place all bombers in reserve after turn two because, well, they are useless.

FYI if a depot says 50000 (25000) because it is 50% damaged, you can still get it to 50000 (50000) when you put three army HQs on it. I didn't know that first and thought that you could never get a 50% damaged depot of 50000 higher then 25000 but apparently, you can. Use this to have your Moscow soldiers in good supply at all times.
Stamb
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RE: The Siege of Moscow

Post by Stamb »

My first GC vs AI at 100%.

1 attack that reduced fort level to 3, another attack, another fort reduction to lvl 2,
refit for 3 turns and finally taken.

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I don't think it is possible to do this via human player unless there will be a huge difference in skill between players

Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!

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