Stepping away

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

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HardLuckYetAgain
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Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

At this point I am stepping away from the game since I do not wish to offend people on what I post. I posted in this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5079658 and Loki took it as a personal attack. It was not, he is stepping down as a moderator which I don’t support since he has been a wealth of insight and postings. I don’t want to infringe on that & feel Loki is a much better resource to the game than I ever will be. I was only trying to post that the losses are way too much for just flying around engaging nothing and should be looked into. It was not an attack on him nor anyone else on the forum. Maybe the operational losses are to historical standards, I don’t know. Maybe the developers have it mirrored to historical on Air Superiority missions losses, I don’t know. I am not that up on that history. But just flying around taking that amount of losses in my gaming history is over the top when not engaging anything. With that I bid everyone good luck & wish all well. The forum should not lose a person of Loki’s character as moderator thus I am stepping away.
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GibsonPete
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RE: Stepping away

Post by GibsonPete »

I would ask that you reconsider. I consider your insight valuable. Should your decision stand I understand and will miss you.

As for Loki stepping down I think that is a mistake. He is also a invaluable resource for those who care about the game.

I would hate to lose out on the knowledge I would gain over something that was a simple misunderstanding.
“Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
AlbertN
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RE: Stepping away

Post by AlbertN »

+1 with what Gibson said.
actrade
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RE: Stepping away

Post by actrade »

Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.
HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: actrade

Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.

No, won't have any impact at all on Loki. I just stepped away for awhile to not say anything bad about the game/Loki on the forum. I like the game too much to leave. Last time was because of work and I had no choice.
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Joel Billings
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RE: Stepping away

Post by Joel Billings »

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.
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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: actrade

Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.

No, won't have any impact at all on Loki. I just stepped away for awhile to not say anything bad about the game/Loki on the forum. I like the game too much to leave. Last time was because of work and I had no choice.

I did not quite if that is what people were thinking
HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.

Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.
wkuh
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RE: Stepping away

Post by wkuh »

Compliments to all who work the game. Thanks for your efforts, whatever futures you desire.
Aurelian
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RE: Stepping away

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.

Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.

Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.
When I argued with the Empress, I always had the last word. That word was, sorry. But it was the last word.
HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.

Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.

Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.

I hope Loki does too. I understand where he is coming from in our emails. I believe we want the same thing but I am not elegant in my manner in how I present things at times on my posting. I personally am not that good in the game. I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect. I try to share my insights for good or bad which I have done both for people to see.
HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain




Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.

Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.

I hope Loki does too. I understand where he is coming from in our emails. I believe we want the same thing but I am not elegant in my manner in how I present things at times on my posting. I personally am not that good in the game. I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect. I try to share my insights for good or bad which I have done both for people to see.

By the way, Jubjub is a wealth of very good in depth knowledge too. If and when he writes something take notice :-)
HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Stepping away

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect.

NOW you know where my name comes from ;_)
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heliodorus04
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RE: Stepping away

Post by heliodorus04 »

Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...

You are all beta testers of a game with so much data that the game only accidentally resembles warfare during World War Two on the Eastern Front. This game is so ridiculously over-modeled with data that it produces inexplicable results.

This is not a game for tacticians or students of history. It is not even a game for people who appreciate the details of difficult operational warfare. It is a game for data miners to improve on Zhukov's magnum opus.

Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...
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metaphore
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RE: Stepping away

Post by metaphore »

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...

You are all beta testers of a game with so much data that the game only accidentally resembles warfare during World War Two on the Eastern Front. This game is so ridiculously over-modeled with data that it produces inexplicable results.

This is not a game for tacticians or students of history. It is not even a game for people who appreciate the details of difficult operational warfare. It is a game for data miners to improve on Zhukov's magnum opus.

Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...
Personnally, I don't know anything about "The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2" neither do I know who "Pelton" is/was and what happened to him. And frankly, I don't care either.

Those low bits put aside, I do think that you're right to say that the over-modelisation of this game with data is finally resulting into an end product wich looks like a poor tactical/operational/strategical simulation of WW2 (it's failing all criterium trying to achieve all).

I also think you are nasty about the Zhukov part.
kahta
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RE: Stepping away

Post by kahta »


This is a game. I think it's time we all start acting like it.
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GibsonPete
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RE: Stepping away

Post by GibsonPete »

I remember Pelton and his rants. I also remember how often he was right and how often he was rude and gamey. I have no information on play tester or player bias so will not touch it. IMO the individuals on this forum are 99% of the time polite and generous with sharing concepts and issues. All of us know the game has some issues that are being discussed (glass cannon panzer divisions, Assault HQ, temp motorization, Air OPS losses, etc.). Those discussions and ultimate resolutions are necessary. I hope they continue.
“Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
hei1
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RE: Stepping away

Post by hei1 »

ORIGINAL: kahta


This is a game. I think it's time we all start acting like it.

+1 !!! (first rule in game design: "a game should create fun")

BTW: WitE1/2 are really great conflict simulation games. And I like to follow discussions in this forum. ... First rule in simulations: the player rely on his/her real world intuition and knowledge. The game is an approximation on a more or less abstract level.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Stepping away

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...

I think this is inaccurate and also somewhat insulting. If you have an individual beef with someone, that's one thing, making broad generalizations about the community is another. Please keep discussions on this forum civil, consider this a warning.
Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...

I'm not sure you're aware of this, but Pelton's banning had to do with repeatedly breaking the forum rules regarding civility towards others in the community. He was himself part of the test team earlier based on his experience and skill, but it was his rude and uncivil behavior that resulted in a ban, nothing else.

Regards,

- Erik
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GibsonPete
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RE: Stepping away

Post by GibsonPete »

Erik is absolutely correct about Pelton. The Matrix staff gave Pelton numerous attempts to correct his bad behavior and he simply felt he was above it all. They were forced to get rid of him.

As for the bias of any tester or player bias I have not observed it and will again state I have found all to be polite and generous in stating their positions.
“Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
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