Weather in October 1941

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

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panzer51
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Weather in October 1941

Post by panzer51 »

I know everyone thinks that the amount of rain in Russia in October was huge so everything turned into heavy mud. However, in the game it's way overboard. Heavy mud is all over Europe. It must be some humongous system that have so much water that the oceans probably ran dry.

The reason for mud story is because of Moscow offensive. That's where the rain fell. It didn't rain heavily in the South or even parts of Central Russia. Meteorological observations are not easily available for 1941 for many places for obvious reasons, but for example they do exist for Voronezh and Tambov. Both only had two rainy days with precipitation over 14mm. One on October 10 and the other on October 28. The rest of October was overcast but had hardly much rain. No mud. Crimea is another place where apparently there is heavy mud, which is unthinkable really given a very dry climate there. Army Group South conducted operations successfully south of Kharkov in October 1941 without much of weather hindrance. Not so in the game.

So, the weather system is very primitive in the game but at least I think the devs can create another climate zone so that the amount of rain can see a little more variation.
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Joel Billings
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RE: Weather in October 1941

Post by Joel Billings »

Rain is variable and depends on exactly where the fronts go on any given turn. I think it's harsh to say this weather system is primitive. I haven't seen a system this detailed in any hex based wargame I've ever played or looked at. That's not to say it is perfect. There is a weather zone that includes the Crimea. I'd want to see more data before making any changes. Currently the Crimea has 1 10 day period of heavy rain in October, but if a weather front happens to wonder by it's converted to light rain, which doesn't cause heavy mud. What I have seen in earlier posts is that some people think the weather is too variable, and some think there is too much light rain in the summer and often not enough heavy rain in the fall/spring. I can't say these are majority opinions, just things I've read in the forum.
All understanding comes after the fact.
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panzer51
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:27 am

RE: Weather in October 1941

Post by panzer51 »

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Rain is variable and depends on exactly where the fronts go on any given turn. I think it's harsh to say this weather system is primitive. I haven't seen a system this detailed in any hex based wargame I've ever played or looked at. That's not to say it is perfect. There is a weather zone that includes the Crimea. I'd want to see more data before making any changes. Currently the Crimea has 1 10 day period of heavy rain in October, but if a weather front happens to wonder by it's converted to light rain, which doesn't cause heavy mud. What I have seen in earlier posts is that some people think the weather is too variable, and some think there is too much light rain in the summer and often not enough heavy rain in the fall/spring. I can't say these are majority opinions, just things I've read in the forum.
Joel

thanks for your answer. Another issue for you too consider is the type of soil. the reason for muds in Central Russia is the prevalence of clays and a fairly thin soil level. Further south the soils are much thicker and don't turn to heavy mud that easily. In my game at the end of October it's heavy mud nearly everywhere except a very tiny piece along the shore of Sea of Azov and southern part of Crimea. For some reason I can't move my units across the Taman Strait for two turns now, I assume it's because of mud.

I don't know how variable the weather is, but it looks to me it depends on a climate zone exclusively. Perhaps I'm wrong.
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Joel Billings
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RE: Weather in October 1941

Post by Joel Billings »

It's the interaction of fixed static weather by zone/date, and impact of semi-random fronts by zone/date. See the editor if you want to see the specifics.
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
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