Submitted: Nicaragua Missile Crisis, 2021

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BeirutDude
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-13-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

C:MO now allows UNREP of ground units (https://command.matrixgames.com/?p=4982). I've checked it out today manually, but I haven't yet tried to implement it for a computer-controlled side.

I missed that. Thanks. I think I'm leaving the extra rounds in the magazines with the idea the PLA would have had time to build bunkers/revetments in planned the deployment areas for the SAMs. That said, this dovetails nicely with another scenario Idea I have...
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-13-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

I believe omnidirectional EMPs are usable by everybody, high altitude nuclear explosion EMPs are usable by everybody (but not the player in this scenario because they have no ballistic missiles), and directional EMPs are Pro only.

Thanks, I can never remember which we can use as I want to zero out the unusable (Directional EMP) weapons so no one loads them accidently.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-13-2021)

Post by BDukes »

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
I believe omnidirectional EMPs are usable by everybody, high altitude nuclear explosion EMPs are usable by everybody (but not the player in this scenario because they have no ballistic missiles), and directional EMPs are Pro only.

Thanks, I can never remember which we can use as I want to zero out the unusable (Directional EMP) weapons so no one loads them accidently.

Weird. Its just an arc[:)]


Mike
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PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

NEWER VERSION BELOW AS OF 08-30-2021

All the magazines are now loaded out!

All of the changes above have been made. Clarified some of the points made in the suggestions (size of Exclusion zone, Nicaragua's status, etc.). Thanks for the suggestions so far, keep them coming. We might not always agree, but I do try to listen. Sometimes like with the names of the bases I can be swayed by popular opinion! [:D]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-13-2021)

Post by Kushan04 »

Downloaded. With temperatures back to normal I might actually get to play games this week.
ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Are the positions of the missile launchers, and other Chinese units, randomized?

NO!!!!

Now here is why...
I am always very careful in my scenario unit placement to ensure a unit CAN ACTUALLY GET TO ITS LOCATION! I am sometimes driven crazy by designers who do things like placing a mobile Cheese Board radar at the top of a sheer cliff with no roads leading there, because it is the highest place and radars work better there! How did it get there? last time I looked we didn't have real world teleportation yet.

Ok, what does that have to do with this scenario? TELs, SAMs and Mobile Radars are IFR (I Follow Roads [:D] ) and in this area there aren't many roads that can support those units. I considered teleporting for randomization, but those teleports would need to be along the very sparse road network to follow my rule above, so it just didn't make sense. Instead I took the approach I believe a real commander would take for deployment and the TELs and their IADS protection are dispersed along the main highways that could support them. This is one reason why I made the weather so bad to make recon more challenging. There is another aspect to this, in the real world Intel is looking for units where they are likely to be. So I feel it is very realistic for them to dispersed along the highways so no single TEL is close enough to the others to be hit by a single aircraft conventionally (maybe a nuke could get two or so, but I tried to take that into account as well).

That wasn't meant as a criticism. Was asking for planning on subsequent play throughs.

I agree with your reasoning. If these were Scuds in the Iraqi desert then I think not randomizing would be a missed opportunity. But in the jungle like this is set in, with limited roads, not randomizing makes perfect sense.

As for units being on top of mountains, where there's a will (or a commissar with pistol) there's a way.
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-13-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

That wasn't meant as a criticism. Was asking for planning on subsequent play throughs.

So I didn't take it as a criticism, but it (obviously) did touch an issue for me.
I agree with your reasoning. If these were Scuds in the Iraqi desert then I think not randomizing would be a missed opportunity. But in the jungle like this is set in, with limited roads, not randomizing makes perfect sense.

Yeah, probably another reason i reacted so strongly is this was something I struggled with game play vs. realism. That is why I tried to add so many other features that would add to it, like bad weather, and restricted recon before the attacks. Also players can play with different loadouts for additional replay value. I may do one if the desert with the TELs teleporting! Iran maybe? Pakistan? Libya in the 1990s with the good Colonel having gotten both nukes and some Scuds might be fun!
As for units being on top of mountains, where there's a will (or a commissar with pistol) there's a way.

Well maybe I think too much like an American [:D] Yes, military history is replete with forces doing the unexpected or "impossible" (Torpedoes at a "too shallow" Pearl Harbor). On this, yes I can see some of the older radars helioed to the top, I can see a switchback path getting it up there. I can even see some being disassembled and taken u by pack mule and reassembled. BuT, those would be exceptions not the rule, like some designers think! Consider the USMC transportable GATOR radar, meant to be portable, and look at all that goes with it!!!!

https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we ... ar-g-ator/

Imagine a Cheese Board taken up there. So yes older units and some newer units, but I think folks really need to think about where they are placing MOST modern radars in ultra modern scenarios.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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Selchu
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by Selchu »

Downloaded before you change your mind.
So I didn't take it as a criticism, but it (obviously) did touch an issue for me.

Someone make this man a White Russian QUICK!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BDukes »

Excellent as usual, BD. I'm about 1/2 through will post a final tally when done. I'm a huge fan of your sandbox-type scenarios! Nice touches with the weather as well!

Ok, my nitpicks to pay the bill.

Typo in West Palm Beach Airport. I do that all the time!
CV Groups- CSG-12 CVN has no MH-60S or MH-60R helos. I know this is dressing, but C-2's should be replaced with CMV-22B.
JATM is on the CV's so its a possible loadout. Did you want that?
Numerous Squadron #'s are higher than in real life, but it's your game world.
Global Hawks are high-end strategic drones. Very pricey and won't be forward. Perhaps the Medium drones like Reapers, Avenger, etc., in Mexico?
Any chance you can plop a few reference points down after the general location message? I had to google where these locations are. (I know boo hoo!)
Lot of clicks due to so many facilities being so close to each other. I usually end up grouping as much as I can, but it would be a good playability thing.
I did give it the full salvo tomahawk test before playing for real and was able to kill known radars, tons of aircraft and shut down all runways of the big fields. A lot of different approaches to handle this issue. It is something I'm always tinkering with on my end.

Thanks again!

Mike


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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BDukes »

Finished- Trillion dollar victory and a lot of McFish sandwiches for us this year. VLA's a whale!Q

Scored 38700

Thanks again BD! Good time as always!
SIDE: China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
21x H-6G Badger [H-6M]
24x J-10C Vigorous Dragon
11x J-11B Flanker B [Su-27SK Copy]
6x J-20B Mighty Dragon
4x Y-8Q Cub [GX6]
29x A/C Hangar (4x Very Large Aircraft)
34x A/C Hardened Aircraft Shelter (1x Large Aircraft)
3x A/C Underground Aircraft Shelter (4x Large Aircraft)
1x Building (Electric Sub Station)
1x Building (Large)
1x Building (Transformer)
1x Building (Very Large Leadership Compound)
1x Bunker (Comm Center)
1x Bunker (Missile Alert Facility (MAF))
1x Radar (China JY-14 Great Wall)
5x Radar (China Type 120 [JY-29/LSS-1 Mod])
3x Radar (China YLC-2V Mod [Type 305B])
2x Radar (China YLC-2V)
1x Radar (China YLC-8B)
2x Radar (HQ-16A Search Radar)
1x Structure (Generator)
1x Structure (Power Station - Gas)
1x Underground Hardened Bunker (C3M)
4x 30mm China LD-2000 [Type 730] [Cargo]
4x 35mm/90 PGZ-07 SPAAG [Cargo]
18x DF-100 [Nuclear] TEL [Cargo]
17x HQ-12 Twin Rail [Cargo]
12x HQ-16A [LY-80] TEL [Cargo]
3x HQ-22 TEL [Cargo]
10x HQ-64 TEL [Aspide, LY-60] [Cargo]
16x HQ-9B TEL [Cargo]
3x SA-16 Gimlet [9K310 Igla-1] MANPADS [Cargo]
4x SA-20b Gargoyle [5P85SE] TEL [Cargo]
1x Vehicle (Cheese Board [96L6E]) [Cargo]
1x Vehicle (China H-200 HQ-22 Mod) [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (China H-200) [Cargo]
5x Vehicle (China HQ-64 Illuminator) [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (China HT-233 [HQ-9]) [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (China YLC-2V) [Cargo]
3x Vehicle (HQ-16 FCR) [Cargo]
1x Vehicle (Tombstone [30N6E]) [Cargo]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
88x HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]
72x PL-15
11x 23mm Type 23-3 Burst [40 rnds]
14x 30mm China H/PJ-12 [Type 730, 240 rnds]
13x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
27x 30mm Gsh-30-1 Burst [30 rnds]
94x HQ-64 [Aspide, LY-60N]
32x SA-20b Gargoyle [48N6E2]
97x HQ-12
128x 35mm/90 Twin Type-90 Burst [20 rnds, China Type 902 FC]
149x HQ-9B
5x PL-10
9x HQ-22
2x YJ-12



SIDE: CONUS Aimpoints
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Nicaragua
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
7x J-7C Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]
18x J-8F Finback B [J-8II]
1x Ammo Pad
4x Radar (Bar Lock A [P-37])
4x Radar (China HN-401R)
4x Radar (China HN-503)
3x Radar (China JY-8 Wall Rust)
1x Radar (China JY-8A Wall Rust)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
38x 30mm Type 30-1 x 2 Burst [30 rnds]
10x PL-8B [Python 3]
12x PL-12
7x 23mm Type 23-3 Burst [40 rnds]
22x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]



SIDE: United States
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x F/A-18F Super Hornet Blk III
2x F-35A Lightning II
3x RQ-4B Global Hawk Blk 40 UAV


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
3x RIM-174A ERAM SM-6 Blk IA
166x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
84x RGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission]
108x RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
104x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM-C
6x RIM-174A ERAM SM-6 Blk IB
8x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
102x RGM-109D Tomahawk Blk III TLAM-D
1x AN/ALE-50 [RT-1646/ALE]
1x RUM-139C VLA [Mk54]
1x RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Blk IIIB
179x GBU-53/B SDB-II
39x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
4x AN/ALE-70 FOTD
10x AN/ALE-70(V)/T-1687 Expendable Decoy
16x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
2x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Dual Spectral]
32x AGM-88E AARGM
32x AGM-154A JSOW [145 x BLU-97/B Dual Purpose]
20x GBU-31(V)4/B JDAM [BLU-109A/B]
12x AGM-154C-1 JSOW [BROACH]
2x AGM-84K SLAMER-ATA
192x AGM-158B JASSM-ER



SIDE: Biologics
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Biologic Orcas


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Command Aircraft
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------


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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

Ok, my nitpicks to pay the bill.

Thank you!
Typo in West Palm Beach Airport. I do that all the time!

Thanks, my dyslexia gets the best of me at times.
CV Groups- CSG-12 CVN has no MH-60S or MH-60R helos. I know this is dressing,


Covered that in the discussion, left them out with the excuse they wanted to maximize flight deck space, but really with no ASW missions in the Atlantic I figured I've save the units to maximize performance.
but C-2's should be replaced with CMV-22B.

Thanks, I thought the Greyhounds weren't being replaced until 2027, but saw they are doing it early! TY!
JATM is on the CV's so its a possible loadout. Did you want that?

Yeah, they weren't a lot, and I figured they'd get some early versions. That said, I decided to take the ones in the Mags out.
Numerous Squadron #'s are higher than in real life, but it's your game world.

Which ones? I did 8 aircraft for tankers, MPA, electronic and helios, 12 for carrier squadrons, 18 for F-22s and F-35 and 24 for regular AF fighter/multirole. So if I'm high on any I'd like to correct but those are the numbers I know of.
Global Hawks are high-end strategic drones. Very pricey and won't be forward. Perhaps the Medium drones like Reapers, Avenger, etc., in Mexico?

I could change the Global Hawks out, they were a late add. The Mexico thing was to spread some of the clutter out, and show some diplomatic support.
Any chance you can plop a few reference points down after the general location message? I had to google where these locations are. (I know boo hoo!)

Yeah that's easy, did it in a Syria Scenario in the past.
Lot of clicks due to so many facilities being so close to each other. I usually end up grouping as much as I can, but it would be a good playability thing.

I probably can group the Civilian facilities where they are clustered, Like Tampa and Jacksonville.
I did give it the full salvo tomahawk test before playing for real and was able to kill known radars, tons of aircraft and shut down all runways of the big fields. A lot of different approaches to handle this issue. It is something I'm always tinkering with on my end.

I tweaked the TLAMs down, but the fact is if this were really happening we would overwhelm them with TLAMs. It's just the American way! [:D] [:)] [8D]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

Trillion dollar victory and a lot of McFish sandwiches for us this year. VLA's a whale!Q

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][8D]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

Changes from above made. With reference points in Nicaragua I started the scenario zoomed in on Nicaragua.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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Kushan04
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by Kushan04 »

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Changes from above made. With reference points in Nicaragua I started the scenario zoomed in on Nicaragua.

Really!? I just spent an hour getting all my loadouts set for my stream tomorrow morning...

Setup all of my fighters for AAW initially. Figure if I have 24 hours after the ultimatum expires before the PLARF missiles are ready, that gives me some time to pound the NAF and PLAAF into the ground, giving me almost free reign to strike what I want after. Could be a massive miscalculation on my part.

Going to use my heavy bombers for the initial strikes, with followups being from fighters on the carriers.
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by morphin »

ORIGINAL: Kushan04
ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Changes from above made. With reference points in Nicaragua I started the scenario zoomed in on Nicaragua.

Really!? I just spent an hour getting all my loadouts set for my stream tomorrow morning...

Setup all of my fighters for AAW initially. Figure if I have 24 hours after the ultimatum expires before the PLARF missiles are ready, that gives me some time to pound the NAF and PLAAF into the ground, giving me almost free reign to strike what I want after. Could be a massive miscalculation on my part.

Going to use my heavy bombers for the initial strikes, with followups being from fighters on the carriers.


24 hours time. Don't believe everything. Changes happens [:D]
[:D]
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

Really!? I just spent an hour getting all my loadouts set for my stream tomorrow morning...

The changes really shouldn't change the scenario play much. They are more evolutionarily than revolutionary!

What time are you streaming? I'd like to watch.

Setup all of my fighters for AAW initially. Figure if I have 24 hours after the ultimatum expires before the PLARF missiles are ready, that gives me some time to pound the NAF and PLAAF into the ground, giving me almost free reign to strike what I want after. Could be a massive miscalculation on my part.

Going to use my heavy bombers for the initial strikes, with followups being from fighters on the carriers.

Should be fun!
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

Kushan. So saw your set up stream and made a few notes for some corrections. Don't know why I thought remembered more electronic aircraft in the electronic squadron, but looked it up and my memory is faulty. Global Hawks have already been replaced with predator's. Will reduce the MH-60R squadron to 5 Helios. I have a love-hate relationship with realistic sub comms myself. Will turn it off. I was already thinking of loosing some E-3Gs and RC-135w as some would be deployed. Also I just called the Presidential Command E-4B at Joint Base Andrews Air Force One as I don't know it's code name.

I may not be able to edit the briefing as it is locking up when I try.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by KnightHawk75 »

Hey if you end up making another edit, no need to make the thanks that glaring my dude. I mean I appreciate the note, but some small text at the bottom is more than enough thanks.[:D]

Finally getting to truly play it this weekend. Good times so far![&o]

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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

but some small text at the bottom is more than enough thanks.

I like to acknowledge those who help me!!!!!

I just took care of the points Kushan04 brought up in the Set Up video, and something he said inspired me to set up another surprise. Unfortunately a bit too late for his video, but a neat wrinkle.

Last I heard, Tyndall AFB was projected to reopen for aircraft in Sept 2023. Unless there is another "Michael" that is! [X(]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by Kushan04 »

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
What time are you streaming? I'd like to watch. [/b][/color]

10am PDT/1pm EDT/6pm GMT at https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinetv

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Kushan. So saw your set up stream and made a few notes for some corrections. Don't know why I thought remembered more electronic aircraft in the electronic squadron, but looked it up and my memory is faulty. Global Hawks have already been replaced with predator's. Will reduce the MH-60R squadron to 5 Helios. I have a love-hate relationship with realistic sub comms myself. Will turn it off. I was already thinking of loosing some E-3Gs and RC-135w as some would be deployed. Also I just called the Presidential Command E-4B at Joint Base Andrews Air Force One as I don't know it's code name.

I do like the idea of having Global Hawks but they may also not be needed with all of the other recon assets available. If you decide to keep them maybe station them at Creech AFB outside of Las Vegas?

I like the idea of realistic sub comms, but the AI isn't capable of doing any fancy approaches on its own at the moment.

Fair enough with the Presidential E-4B being AF1. Not honestly sure what its callsign would be. It should still be AF1 but because hes on NOAC it might be something else. Hope to never find out. That's all getting way to in the weeds then what I think is necessary here [:)]
ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Last I heard, Tyndall AFB was projected to reopen for aircraft in Sept 2023.

Possibly, I haven't looked up Tyndall in awhile. I had originally heard it was going to be closed and i believe all of the F-22s that where based there have already been distributed to other squadrons.
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RE: PT: Nicaragua Missile Crisis (Ver 08-16-2021)

Post by BeirutDude »

I do like the idea of having Global Hawks but they may also not be needed with all of the other recon assets available. If you decide to keep them maybe station them at Creech AFB outside of Las Vegas?

Reasonable. Maybe two Global Hawks put in NV with some Predator's in Mexico, likely I'll halve those.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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