Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

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Q-Ball
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Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Q-Ball »

It is Turn 6 in my server game vs. Roadwarrior. We are playing TB control off. Here is the current Red Army tank strength of the most modern types, the KV-1 and T-34.

ON MAP:
184 T-34
114 KV-1

OFF MAP (Mostly Far East):

683 T-34
296 KV-1

At-start, there are no T-34s deployed to the Theater Boxes, and only 40 KV-1. That means that the Theater Boxes are getting nearly all of the T-34 and KV-1 replacements; hardly any are going to the MAP.

Nearly all Tank Divisions in TBs are at 100% (many start at 60% roughly). The ones on the map are.....let's say they really need some modern tanks. There are T-26s available, probably because those are getting swapped-out in the Theater Boxes, and those greedy comrades out East are sending us the leftover crap.

I recall this was an issue in testing. It seems like the German front should be getting priority. The AI is sending those tanks to the TBs first.

Before I shoot the Minister for Armaments as a Fascist Saboteur, I thought I would check and see if this is WAD or something else going on

Are others seeing this?
Beethoven1
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Beethoven1 »

Yes, on my turn 6 I have 89 T-34's on map and 806 in theatre boxes.


Also, 70 KV-1s on map, 341 in TBs.
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Q-Ball
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Q-Ball »

No feedback on this (except 1)? Seems like kind of a big deal, or maybe I'm making too much of that?
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

No feedback on this (except 1)? Seems like kind of a big deal, or maybe I'm making too much of that?

do you want me to move it to the bug forum. More chance of someone seeing it there if its a bug or unintended?
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Q-Ball
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

No feedback on this (except 1)? Seems like kind of a big deal, or maybe I'm making too much of that?

do you want me to move it to the bug forum. More chance of someone seeing it there if its a bug or unintended?

Maybe so, thanks!
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Joel Billings
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Joel Billings »

This isn't a bug, but it is something that testers complained about and we never got around to figuring out how to improve it. Basically you've got units in the TBs that will try to go on refit and are in a position to suck in good equipment better than units on the map can. In the early war they will grab some of the good stuff and won't let go of it. There may also be a greater chance of their TOE's upgrading for the same reasons, although that doesn't necessarily cause this early war situation. The reality is you've probably lost as many of the good tanks already as have gone into the units in the TBs, and once those TB units get their equipment things will stabilize. We just didn't have a good/easy way to keep this from happening (and have the units fill out as they need to in a fairly consistent manner). I assume that the issue comes up for both players.
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Denniss »

disable refit for TBs?
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

disable refit for TBs?

can't, the current rule is a workable compromise, that refit is an automatic state when a unit hits the threshold TOE (70% - I forget). Remember that most games are with locked Theatres (sensibly in my view) so if you disable refit all the theatre attrition will just weaken the units (leading to VP and time losses), while allowing more resources to go to the map.
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Q-Ball
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Q-Ball »

OK, guess it's WAD. This impacts the Soviet player much more than German, though in 1944 probably the shoe is on the other foot, when Western Europe is getting priority for replacements when the Soviets are rolling into Poland.....

I can see this being a huge issue in 1944 for the Axis, but we'll see when we get there
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Q-Ball
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Q-Ball »

BTW, turn 8 and the problem is worse; 896 T-34s in the boxes, 108 now on the Map. OFF-MAP counts are rising, ONMAP are dwindling.

Here is something that could help fix this: Make all Theater Box Tank Divisions the 41b Tank Division at-start

The problem is the 41a TOE calls for 210 x Medium Tanks; a couple of those is enough to suck-up all T-34 replacements. While it should change TOE in August, as you know that change can be stubbornly delayed.

The 41b TOE calls for only 64 Mediums, so that change alone would help quite a bit

Thoughts?
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Joel Billings
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Joel Billings »

I'll move this to the data area so your suggestion can be considered there.
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Great_Ajax »

If I do that, there could be the unintended consequence of those Theater Box Tank Divisions dumping tanks into the general pool to get into compliance with the 41b Tank Division OB on the first turn. Many of these tank divisions are scheduled to arrive on the map as reinforcements and may arrive in worse shape than they start in. I don't mind starting the tank divisions that are just starting to build to start with the 41b Tank Division OB.

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Dreamslayer
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RE: Soviet Theater Boxes and Tank Replacements

Post by Dreamslayer »

How about to make a separate TOE for TB tank units? Without T-34's and KV's.
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