[v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

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mroyer
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[v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

Despite the rail connection between Intervale (SHQ S-1) and Verdun (SHQ S-2) having no less than 2783 rail points in any hex between the two SHQ, the transfer trajectory between them only allows for 222 points. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

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phyroks
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by phyroks »

Can you transfer all of the 222 points and then try again getting the higher amount? Think I had one turn where I double transported stuff but I did not pay much attention to why it was allowed.

...Doubtful but did you move troops worth of 2k points?
mroyer
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

Can you transfer all of the 222 points and then try again getting the higher amount?

Well, glory be, you are correct!
I transferred a full 222 and it came back offering a limit of 150. So I transferred 150 and it came back offering 50. So I transferred 50 and it came back offering me the full remainder, some 2000+ in one shot.

So, really, the issue is the number displayed to the user.

(I never tried using up all the logistic points. Because of another anomaly, I never completely exhaust logistic points between SHQs and I always leave one or two. If you completely exhaust them to zero, then you can't move 0 weight stuff anymore like oil and IP).

So, it looks like my eastern army could have been eating all along...

-Mark R.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by BlueTemplar »

Heh, so it (randomly ?) takes one logistic source & path after another ?
mroyer
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Heh, so it (randomly ?) takes one logistic source & path after another ?

That's a good theory! One path at a time being shown instead of the sum of all paths.
I will try to devise an experiment to prove that.

-Mark R.

Edit:
So, I've proven to myself that this is exactly what's happening. When there are multiple paths between SHQs, the game is offering up the paths one at a time. For each path I was able to watch the logi-points drop by the amount shipped with a section of that path going to zero. Then the next path would be offered. I could keep doing it until every path had a zero logi-point section.

It's actually quite amazing to see it in action on a complex network. I don't envy Vic trying to sort it out, because the total isn't a simple sum of the separate paths. There's interplay between overlapping path sections throughout.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by BlueTemplar »

Now that you have a test setup : can you test that the shortest paths (in hexes) are being used up the first ?

Now that I think of it, unit strategic transfer probably uses the same algorithm ?
(But since you see it on the map, and the size of the unit starts at a specific value and doesn't change, you aren't going to be mislead like here...)

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that looks to be very hard to sort out and potentially very expensive to compute...
mroyer
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

Now that you have a test setup : can you test that the shortest paths (in hexes) are being used up the first ?


I repeated the experiment on a different turn-save so the numbers are different, but the conclusion is the same.
This time I documented the results in the following images.
Indeed, it appears to be using shortest to longest path, in that order.
It could also be most northerly to southerly, but I highly doubt it.

As you can see, the final path's value (2184) isn't the value shown on the map (2344).
Instead, it is the value on the map minus the usage that occurs on that section from previous paths: 2184=2344-110-50.
In the image bubbles, the top number is the logistic points and the bottom path length in hexes.



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mroyer
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that looks to be very hard to sort out and potentially very expensive to compute...


This is essentially the same problem shipping companies like UPS face:
https://www.wired.com/2013/06/ups-astronomical-math/

-Mark R.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by BlueTemplar »

If this is the same new software that is now so "optimal" that it results in the drivers driving unsafely and not being able to afford to go on bathroom breaks, then I'm not sure that's progress...

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Woah, fancy graphic !

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Yeah, I'm not really sure what Vic can realistically do about this, maybe calculate two paths each time and warn the player that more than one is available ?
mroyer
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RE: [v1.09.00] SHQ Transfer Logistics Issue

Post by mroyer »

Yeah, I'm not really sure what Vic can realistically do about this, maybe calculate two paths each time and warn the player that more than one is available ?

Right - difficult. I was thinking perhaps offer up the path with the greatest available logipoints, and list the other paths with projected logipoints that would be updated as each path is exhausted, or something like that.

-Mark R.
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