Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

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Kull
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Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

The only difference (as stated by the coder) between the 11.26a WitP-AE Release and the 11.26b Beta, is an improvement to amphibious unloading rates. However, that fix is already included in 11.26a, as was conclusively demonstrated in this thread.

Even so, a significant number of AE veterans still recommend that new players - already struggling with switches and learning the game - "upgrade" to the Beta because it "fixes late war underway replenishment". Specifically, this refers to the ship-type description for the AE Ammunition Ship (page 276 of the manual) which states that an AE is:

"A ship specially equipped to carry ammunition and to rearm other ships while underway. Underway rearming is only available late in the war – until then AEs function as AKE."

There WAS a bug affecting that capability, but the list of 11.26a fixes includes a resolution to that very problem:
ORIGINAL: HybridSpyda

55. Fix underway replenishment not working if total rearm cost too big

Even so, it's a hoary myth that has been repeated again and again here in the forum, attaining something akin to the status of gospel.

Part of the problem is the "bug" is a late war event, so it's not something people would see right off the bat, and you can't test for it until late in the game. Fortunately WitP-AE includes the "Downfall" scenario (starting in September 1945), which means that testing IS possible. So let's do that.

For the test I'm using an unmodified, clean install of 11.26a. We'll assemble a large Bombardment TF at Guam, containing TEN battleships (see attachment), and aim it at nearby Marcus Island. If "re-arm cost too big" is a bug, this should tell us.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

After the bombardment, every BB has expended some of it's ammunition, as exemplified by this screenshot of the TF Leader, BB Missouri.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

The Bombardment TF has rendezvoused with the smallest Replenishment TF I could create, containing the AE Nitro and it's relatively meager 3600 ton capacity.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

Hitting the "Replenish TF at Sea" button results in Ops point expenditure for every ship in the BBTF, but most of that is fuel (yes, even though there isn't an AO in the Replenishment TF, these vampires drain what they can). However, BB Missouri has used 943 points, so let's see where it went.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

Some fuel probably, but most went toward Full Replenishment of all main gun ammo. Which is the bug that supposedly resides in 11.26a. Except it doesn't.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

Lastly we'll look at the Replenishment TF, and sure enough it has expended the maximum 1000 Ops point. Pretty clear that BB Missouri's main gun ammo didn't appear out of thin air.

So, what have we learned? There is no known benefit associated with the 11.26b Beta. There isn't a SINGLE bug which it is proven to fix. From this point forward there is no longer any reason to recommend it to ANYONE, much less a new player, already struggling to get the game working properly.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Nomad »

What I remember is that there was a 1126a-beta at one time. At some point in time this changed to 1126a official release.
I believe that the beta had an error but when they wrapped things up and mad it an official update, they included the
1126b fixes also.
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

ORIGINAL: Nomad

What I remember is that there was a 1126a-beta at one time. At some point in time this changed to 1126a official release.
I believe that the beta had an error but when they wrapped things up and mad it an official update, they included the
1126b fixes also.

That's quite likely the case. As I pointed out in the original 11.26b takedown thread, there was at least a six week interval between the release of the 11.26b beta and the pre-release 11.26a announcement thread. More than enough time to add the actual 11.26b fix, which involved amphibious unload.
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by btd64 »

So I must of missed something but you're saying that the 1126b beta isn't necessary? That's fine with me....GP
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by HansBolter »

How does using the 1126b beta update increase difficulty for newbies who are struggling with switches?

If the newbs are struggling with switches because they don't understand them, they are going to have the same struggles with any executable, not just 1126b.

Hans

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Trugrit »

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: Nomad

What I remember is that there was a 1126a-beta at one time. At some point in time this changed to 1126a official release.
I believe that the beta had an error but when they wrapped things up and mad it an official update, they included the
1126b fixes also.

That's quite likely the case. As I pointed out in the original 11.26b takedown thread, there was at least a six week interval between the release of the 11.26b beta and the pre-release 11.26a announcement thread. More than enough time to add the actual 11.26b fix, which involved amphibious unload.

The numbering system Matrix uses has always been a little strange to me.

I’ve always thought the underway replenishment fix made it into the 1126a because the beta log shows it.

My question has always been did the last beta item make it into the 1126a?

I’ve asked Michael that question by private mail but have never received a reply from him.
I’m not sure that he knows this if his work was handed off to someone else for publication.

That is not a very import question as far as I’m concerned.

But…..It might be to a Japanese player…..If an Amphibious Task Force can unload faster in home ports than other
Types of Task forces then the Japanese should ship all of their supplies and resources by Amphibious Task Force.

I’ve never checked that out.


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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

ORIGINAL: Trugrit

My question has always been did the last beta item make it into the 1126a?

I’ve never checked that out.

You don't have to, since I already did. Both 11.26a and 11.26b handle amphibious unload in exactly the same way.
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How does using the 1126b beta update increase difficulty for newbies who are struggling with switches?

If the newbs are struggling with switches because they don't understand them, they are going to have the same struggles with any executable, not just 1126b.

You are advocating for an additional process that fixes no bugs and adds no benefit whatsoever to the game. What will you tell them Hans? Why are they doing this extra step?
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How does using the 1126b beta update increase difficulty for newbies who are struggling with switches?

If the newbs are struggling with switches because they don't understand them, they are going to have the same struggles with any executable, not just 1126b.

You are advocating for an additional process that fixes no bugs and adds no benefit whatsoever to the game. What will you tell them Hans? Why are they doing this extra step?
It also creates a different directory path for the Beta, but it does add a shortcut that actually points to the game executable, unlike the official version that still puts a shortcut that points to autorun.exe and brings up the menu screen instead of the game. Some pluses, some minuses.


No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How does using the 1126b beta update increase difficulty for newbies who are struggling with switches?

If the newbs are struggling with switches because they don't understand them, they are going to have the same struggles with any executable, not just 1126b.

You are advocating for an additional process that fixes no bugs and adds no benefit whatsoever to the game. What will you tell them Hans? Why are they doing this extra step?
It also creates a different directory path for the Beta, but it does add a shortcut that actually points to the game executable, unlike the official version that still puts a shortcut that points to autorun.exe and brings up the menu screen instead of the game. Some pluses, some minuses.

I'll agree that the 11.26a shortcut pointing to "autorun" is poor implementation on the part of Matrix, but that's hardly a good reason to advocate for people going through the trouble of finding, downloading and installing a "Beta" which does absolutely nothing except deliver a "working" shortcut. On that basis, sure you can cite a "plus".

Except that EVERYONE has to open and edit the shortcut regardless, in order to add switches. Meaning there's no benefit because it takes just as long to edit for switches plus correct directory as it does for switches alone. So its actually faster and less complicated to just edit the 11.26a shortcut.
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by BBfanboy »

I get your point. BTW, beaucoup thanks for doing the testing to dispel that myth! And Kudos to MichaelM for all the inputs to the Beta which became the official update because it was so stable and useful![&o]
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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Kull »

One interesting byproduct of the test. If you have the AEs in a Cargo TF and hit the "Replenish TF at Sea" button, it will still use them (as you can see in the screenshot). So TF type is not the driving factor, it's just having an available AE in the same hex.

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How does using the 1126b beta update increase difficulty for newbies who are struggling with switches?

If the newbs are struggling with switches because they don't understand them, they are going to have the same struggles with any executable, not just 1126b.

You are advocating for an additional process that fixes no bugs and adds no benefit whatsoever to the game. What will you tell them Hans? Why are they doing this extra step?

I didn't advocate anything. I merely made an observation that poked a hole in your 'reasoning' argument.

Am I gonna have to start calling you Cathy Newman?

Is the reason for not using 1126b to not have to go through an unnecessary step or is it to reduce confusion over switches for newbs?

My prompting you resulted in your providing a 'better' reasoning argument.
Hans

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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Kull




You are advocating for an additional process that fixes no bugs and adds no benefit whatsoever to the game. What will you tell them Hans? Why are they doing this extra step?
It also creates a different directory path for the Beta, but it does add a shortcut that actually points to the game executable, unlike the official version that still puts a shortcut that points to autorun.exe and brings up the menu screen instead of the game. Some pluses, some minuses.

I'll agree that the 11.26a shortcut pointing to "autorun" is poor implementation on the part of Matrix, but that's hardly a good reason to advocate for people going through the trouble of finding, downloading and installing a "Beta" which does absolutely nothing except deliver a "working" shortcut. On that basis, sure you can cite a "plus".

Except that EVERYONE has to open and edit the shortcut regardless, in order to add switches. Meaning there's no benefit because it takes just as long to edit for switches plus correct directory as it does for switches alone. So its actually faster and less complicated to just edit the 11.26a shortcut.

Have to admit, I really like the 26b update, as I can copy the entire folder of WITP AE to a new folder, install the patch and the shortcut works.

Just what I am comfortable with though, and if it isn't needed, I certainly could learn a new method.

One less step for new players certainly makes sense.

Thankyou for your work![&o]


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RE: Mythbusters: The 11.26b Beta fixes the "underway replenishment bug"

Post by Trugrit »


I like the Beta as well just because Michael worked on it for years.
I trust him more than anyone else who may have put together the 1126a.

But…I do install the beta after I install the 1126a first.

The problem for new players is that right now we have two versions of the updated game.
Or…at least the computer thinks we have two versions of the updated game.

New players are naturally going to see the Beta thread in the Tech Support Section
and see that it has a date that is newer than the 1126a and will continue to ask us about it
until Kingdom Come.



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