[1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

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misterprimus
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:55 am

[1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by misterprimus »

Was just playing a small moon and doing the typical minor-rushing to capture as much territory as possible before I reach the majors and our borders solidify until we go to war. There were two other majors in this game. Well just as I was about to settle down and start researching, having captured all available non-major territory (and being "friends" with both majors), I suddenly get the message that I am too strong and I win.

And the game keeps going.

I haven't even fought a single battle against either major.
eddieballgame
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RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by eddieballgame »

After achieving the Victory Condition via the Populace% & the Planet%, the game allows you to continue on.
zgrssd
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RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by zgrssd »

You win by having a leading percentage in Land and Population Score combined.

When majors fight wars, they are notoriously excessive in draining population from their cities to throw into the military. A major at war, is basically burning up population like others burn fuel in powerplants.
Fighting the 2nd largest major, can result in the largest major to win as population vanishes into the planetary meatgrinder.

"Maxim 54. The best way to win a one-on-one fight is to be the third to arrive."

And the game allows you to continue after victory, like literally every Turnbaed Strategy game since Civilisations 2.
DW2 Poll:
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https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
misterprimus
Posts: 75
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RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by misterprimus »

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

You win by having a leading percentage in Land and Population Score combined.

When majors fight wars, they are notoriously excessive in draining population from their cities to throw into the military. A major at war, is basically burning up population like others burn fuel in powerplants.
Fighting the 2nd largest major, can result in the largest major to win as population vanishes into the planetary meatgrinder.

"Maxim 54. The best way to win a one-on-one fight is to be the third to arrive."

And the game allows you to continue after victory, like literally every Turnbaed Strategy game since Civilisations 2.
I see. So the victory message (and likewise if you are on the other end of this, the defeat message) has no effect on the game or the what the AI does besides just popping up every turn and making you click through it?

In that way I guess it's just immersion-breaking.
eddieballgame
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RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by eddieballgame »

While not everyone is a fan of the current Victory Conditions as they are, it is an efficient method to bring a game; particularly a multiplayer game, to a halt.
That being said; the game offers a plethora of data to look at & when one comes in contact with a 'Major', that particular regime's data is also available.
Thus allowing for you to create your own Victory Conditions.
Such as using the highest Tech Level, Administration Level, combination of in addition to the original 'VC' data, etc to crown a winner.

In a current 'pbem' game I am participating in, we are having a similar discussion on allowing the game to continue after someone has attained the default 'VC'.
It is a conversation worth having do to the nature of some starting positions being superior to others.
Though, of course, if one has a great starting position he/she should do well in all facets of the game.
No guarantees of course, based on alien life forms & Minors & Majors interference.

There is also the 'old fashioned' way of determining a winner...simply annihilate all other regimes.
Of course, that could/should/would be a very long struggle.
Ok for solo play, not so sure for 'mp'.
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Vic
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RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by Vic »

Yeah the randomness and the small size of the moon can lead to some wacky victory conditions / start conditions. I'll have to revise the percentages for victory upwards for really small maps.

best wishes,
Vic
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misterprimus
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:55 am

RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by misterprimus »

ORIGINAL: Vic

Yeah the randomness and the small size of the moon can lead to some wacky victory conditions / start conditions. I'll have to revise the percentages for victory upwards for really small maps.

best wishes,
Vic
I don't know if percentages of territory/pop is always the best measure. Since many of the planets have very limited natural resources, the majority of the squares are functionally useless and thus territorial conquest is not a good indicator of strength. For example, a city hex, a hex with a glacier, and a hex with a volcano can provide nearly unlimited resources. There really should be a way to turn off the percentages victory conditions and select a "destroy all majors" or "total conquest" (control all hexes) button.
zgrssd
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: [1.09.00] victory message makes no sense

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

ORIGINAL: Vic

Yeah the randomness and the small size of the moon can lead to some wacky victory conditions / start conditions. I'll have to revise the percentages for victory upwards for really small maps.

best wishes,
Vic
I don't know if percentages of territory/pop is always the best measure. Since many of the planets have very limited natural resources, the majority of the squares are functionally useless and thus territorial conquest is not a good indicator of strength. For example, a city hex, a hex with a glacier, and a hex with a volcano can provide nearly unlimited resources. There really should be a way to turn off the percentages victory conditions and select a "destroy all majors" or "total conquest" (control all hexes) button.
There is a decent chance that the S&S Editor can do these changes. And it is currently in Beta.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
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