[1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

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misterprimus
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[1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by misterprimus »

Save attached. It seems as though positive energy production and sufficient logistics are not enough to supply energy-consuming units. See attaches save file.

There are four cities and each contains a single power bank asset. Observe the energy stockpile held by the automatons on the eastern border. Then shut off the power bank assets. Energy production is still net positive and logistics are all green, but those units begin to "starve." Turn the power banks back on, and the units begin to recover.

https://gofile.io/d/eW3dnq

This also hits units that user lasers for firepower. They basically run out of power and become unarmed bunkers.

It also doesn't completely make sense for stationary automatons to "starve" to death so quickly. They should certainly use power when fighting and certainly if fighting with energy weapons, but when not being attacked, they should use up only a tiny amount of power, just as tanks use hardly any fuel when standing in place and not fighting. Also, when they "starve," they should simply become dormant and easily destroyable, not disappear (especially given their high resource cost).
zgrssd
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RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by zgrssd »

To be clear: The issues is less that you need enough Storage, but that it is so damn easy to run out of Storage for energy.
It is the only resource that works that way.

Zones try to keep 1 Turn (2 for food) of consumption in storage, with the remainign storage being handed off to the SHQ.

However with Energy the storage is so low, a bunch of consumers all over the empire can literally starve the SHQ of storage:
It simply has less storage then the consumption is.
Even with perfect production and logistics, it can not store enough energy for next turn.
Which means it can not retreive enough energy before end-turn.
Which means it can not deliver enough energy next turn.

Increasing the free power storage should fix that. Maybe a increase to be more in line with other Storage. Or maybe you could add storage equal to what is consumed each turn (simulating the power dependant assets taking care of having enough capacity for their job).
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
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Hazard151
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RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by Hazard151 »

Note that powerbanks are actually the most efficient storage system in the game. Other storage assets calculate their storage capacity as (level^2)*1000, but powerbanks calculate it as (level^2)*2000. Not having access to them is crippling due to the small energy storage capacity of cities in general, especially once you start diving into the highly energy demanding industries and weapons. However, once you do have access to powerbanks it's basically trivial to overcome that lack.
misterprimus
Posts: 75
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RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by misterprimus »

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

To be clear: The issues is less that you need enough Storage, but that it is so damn easy to run out of Storage for energy.
It is the only resource that works that way.

Zones try to keep 1 Turn (2 for food) of consumption in storage, with the remainign storage being handed off to the SHQ.

However with Energy the storage is so low, a bunch of consumers all over the empire can literally starve the SHQ of storage:
It simply has less storage then the consumption is.
Even with perfect production and logistics, it can not store enough energy for next turn.
Which means it can not retreive enough energy before end-turn.
Which means it can not deliver enough energy next turn.

Increasing the free power storage should fix that. Maybe a increase to be more in line with other Storage. Or maybe you could add storage equal to what is consumed each turn (simulating the power dependant assets taking care of having enough capacity for their job).

The last idea is probably best since anything electrical by definition will have its own integral power banks. For example if you buy a Tesla, it has its own power storage, even if it's not an industrial "asset" that takes up an acre. Power storage capacity should be storage of industrial power storage assets + maximum capacity of all units that store power (like tanks with energy weapons, automatons, etc...) + max amount of power usable by power-consuming assets.
Mazth
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:57 pm

RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by Mazth »

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

(...)

Zones try to keep 1 Turn (2 for food) of consumption in storage, with the remainign storage being handed off to the SHQ.

However with Energy the storage is so low, a bunch of consumers all over the empire can literally starve the SHQ of storage:
It simply has less storage then the consumption is.
Even with perfect production and logistics, it can not store enough energy for next turn.
Which means it can not retreive enough energy before end-turn.
Which means it can not deliver enough energy next turn.

(...)

I am exactly having the same problem now.
Where can one find the information about the zones keeping 1 turn stocks?
Good know for sure, explains a few of the things I was observing, thanks!
zgrssd
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: Mazth

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

(...)

Zones try to keep 1 Turn (2 for food) of consumption in storage, with the remainign storage being handed off to the SHQ.

However with Energy the storage is so low, a bunch of consumers all over the empire can literally starve the SHQ of storage:
It simply has less storage then the consumption is.
Even with perfect production and logistics, it can not store enough energy for next turn.
Which means it can not retreive enough energy before end-turn.
Which means it can not deliver enough energy next turn.

(...)

I am exactly having the same problem now.
Where can one find the information about the zones keeping 1 turn stocks?
Good know for sure, explains a few of the things I was observing, thanks!
I go the information by looking at the zone storage tab and comparing this turns storage to this turns consumption.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
Mazth
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:57 pm

RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by Mazth »

I go the information by looking at the zone storage tab and comparing this turns storage to this turns consumption.

Thanks for doing the legwork! I was afraid I missed it somewhere in the documentation
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BlueTemplar
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RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by BlueTemplar »

Note that this can also happen on the level of the Zones themselves, without any warning either :

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BlueTemplar
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RE: [1.08.06] lack of power banks leads to energy unit starvation despite net positive energy production

Post by BlueTemplar »

.

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