[Logged] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

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tiag
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 am

[Logged] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by tiag »

Several F-16s can't detect any sort of ground unit (mobile or fixed) by using the onboard radar.

It seems, there is a flag on the DB missing for the APG-66 and all APG-68 radars: Ground Search (Fixed) and Ground Search (Mobile). APG-66(V)2 and 3 are ok.

I am using the latest DB487.
thewood1
Posts: 6913
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 pm

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by thewood1 »

My understanding was the 66 could not do object detection on the ground, only terrain mapping. It wasn't until the V that GMTT was added as a new ground mode. That's just my understanding and I no source for that.
You are like puss filled boil on nice of ass of bikini model. You are nasty to everybody but then try to sweeten things up with a nice post somewhere else. That's nice but you're still a boil on a beautiful thing! - BDukes
tiag
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 am

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by tiag »

Vanilla APG-66 had the following A2G radar modes:
Real Beam Map-A noncoherent, frequency-agile mode for air-to-surface mapping; used to identify and locate ground targets and to update the inertial navigation system.
Doppler Beam Sharpening-A ground mapping mode which employs doppler processing to enhance the azimuth resolution beyond that of the real beam.
Sea I-A noncoherent, frequency-agile mode used for detecting ships in the presence of moderate sea clutter.
Sea II-A coherent, MTI mode which permits detection of moving ships in the presence of strong sea clutter.
Air-to-Ground Ranging-Obtains accurate range data along the radar line of sight to a ground point via angle-error sensing.

It seems it may not have a GMTT indeed as the (V)2 and 3. But it should be able to find fixed targets as well as >vehicles which are not moving<. So, the DB seems to be incorrect.
APG-68 definitelly had the capabilities of detecting fixed as well as moving ground targets. It surprises me that this error is in the DB after so many years for an aircraft like the F-16.
thewood1
Posts: 6913
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 pm

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by thewood1 »

It probably went unnoticed because the straight up 66 and 68 were not in a lot of frontline blocks by the time you hit desert storm. It hits a kind of gap between mid 80s and late 80s. Most of the players here play cold war, desert storm-like stuff and modern. Only older A models used the 66. Even a lot of foreign users had upgraded to the Vs. So I think it just wasn't used enough by players to notice. The range for ground detection is short enough, it probably wasn't a deciding factor in scenarios in that time period.

This should be posted into the db thread also.
You are like puss filled boil on nice of ass of bikini model. You are nasty to everybody but then try to sweeten things up with a nice post somewhere else. That's nice but you're still a boil on a beautiful thing! - BDukes
Pygmalion
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:43 am

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by Pygmalion »

Yes, the 66 was definitely capable of ground search, albeit slightly limited in its capacity to track moving targets, as tiag correctly points out.

Fixed for 489, distinguishing between the earlier 66s and the (V)2/3 by giving the latter an MTI flag.

Thanks for spotting this. I won't speculate as to how this error stuck around for so long, but it's thanks to people like you looking over our shoulders that we can catch and kill 'em...even if a few years late!
Ethan "Pygmalion" Hermanson
Database Manager, Command Development Team
tiag
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 am

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by tiag »

68 and its versions are THE radar of the F-16C, since the late 80s/early 90s. The 68(V)1-9 are the most used radars in the USAF and abroad until recently. All, CG, CJ, CM, CCIP, F-16I, KF-16, all of them use it. I think the reason people did not notice it before is due to the tgt pods. Almost every A2G loadout of the F-16 comes with some kind of tgt pod, Lantirn, Sniper, etc, so, the tgt is detected, but not by the radar. When I tried older block 30s/40s without tgt pod, I was not able to engage any ground target before vis detection.

Anyway, I will also post there.
tiag
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 am

RE: [Bug Report] F-16's Radar can't detect ground units

Post by tiag »

Found same error for the APG-70s carried by the F-15I of Israel. In the current DB, the radar dont have any A2G capability. Added to the thread for DB3000.
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