Refusing demands effect on word score

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Zanotirn
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:11 am

Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by Zanotirn »

Something that has been bothering me from the first time I saw it - why does your word score go down when you refuse a demand?

I can understand how it would go down if you stayed vague when people want a concrete policy goal ("now this guy is just talking like a shifty politician"). On the other hand when faced with a request that doesn't look particularly realistic, an untrustworthy leader will just promise it anyway and hope he can talk his way out of the fallout later, while a trustworthy one will outright refuse to promise anything. Refusing these demands can definitely cause people to become unhappy, but it should not lead to a hit to perceived honesty. If anything the effect would be "I may not like this guy, but at least with him you know where he stands".
zgrssd
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by zgrssd »

Let us go over the rules according to manual first:
"5.8.10.6. faCtIon demands
Factions are groupings of Leaders that try to promote a specific agenda.
If Faction Happiness is lower than 90, there is a chance that they make a Demand. The lower the Happiness, the higher the chance.
The Demands are always linked to one of your Regime Feats. A Regime Feat linked to a low value Regime Profile that is. A Regime Feat liked by the Faction is more likely to get involved in a Demand.
A Demand will most likely be made by a Faction that is part of the Majority of your Political Body (parliament, senate, politburo). In other words, only the Factions that did well in the elections are likely to make Demands. This is because it is easier to Demand things with a majority in your Political Body. A Minority Faction has 4 times less chance to make a Demand in a Parliament, 2 times less in a Senate and notably no difference in chance in a Politburo.
Their Demands can be very varied, but your Decision is always between (a) refusing the Demand and taking a medium hit or (b) accepting the Demand and become burdened with a problem you have to solve before a deadline.
Accepting all Demands might seem the cleverer course of action but the hit you take if you eventually fail to deliver on a Demand is much bigger than if you refuse the Demand on the outset, at the moment when it is made.

Maximum Active Demands
§If you have a Parliament, the maximum is 3 Demands.
§If you have a Senate, the maximum is 2 Demands.
§If you have a Politburo, the maximum is 1 Demands.

This means that the more democratic you are, the more you’ll have to deal with Demands from your Factions"
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
zgrssd
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by zgrssd »

It took some considerable political clout to make this demand of you.
They are not just some random thing said by some random pleb in the faction. The demands were propably voted on, just to pick the one worth forcing your hand with.

The real issue is usually not the demands themself, but the Profile demands. Because you just got 0 control over getting the option to increase the score.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
Zanotirn
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:11 am

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by Zanotirn »

I understand that it makes sense that you'll take a relation hit of you refuse their demand.

What doesn't make sense is taking a hit to the word score. According to the manual, "Your Word Score models if you keep your promises. If it gets low your promises will not be trusted by your Leaders and other Regimes."

I don't see any logical (or even emotional) reason why refusing to make a promise would lead to your promises not being trusted.
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deMangler
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:37 am

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by deMangler »

I have been thinking about posting in this thread for a few days.
Initially I came here because I wanted to make the same point as the OP - It didn't feel right that I should take a Word hit for refusing a demand, while taking a faction hit seemed fine. After all I am not being unreliable just honest.
However, having thought more about who makes the demands and why I have managed to re-frame it in my head so that I can enjoy this more.

It kind of boils down to taking responsibility as a leader for legitimising the expectations of people making demands in the first place. Demands are only ever made that could reasonably be expected to be accepted (from an RP perspective) - at the start of the game because the faction reps don't know you, and later because the demands are to some extent made by those you have at least implicitly legitimised.
The word hit then represents more a lack of confidence that you will listen to a reasonable demand (by anyone) rather than a reflection of how you relate to that faction (that is the faction hit).
This is how I have come to understand the rules here in a way that makes sense and makes it seem consistent to me.
zgrssd
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by zgrssd »

It kind of boils down to taking responsibility as a leader for legitimising the expectations of people making demands in the first place. Demands are only ever made that could reasonably be expected to be accepted (from an RP perspective) - at the start of the game because the faction reps don't know you, and later because the demands are to some extent made by those you have at least implicitly legitimised.
The word hit then represents more a lack of confidence that you will listen to a reasonable demand (by anyone) rather than a reflection of how you relate to that faction (that is the faction hit).
This is how I have come to understand the rules here in a way that makes sense and makes it seem consistent to me.
If you choose to "not comit to anything" in a Policy speech, you loose word score as you seem "indecisive".
I guess the same logic is at work for Demands?

Another way to look at it, is that Senate (or the equivalent) voted on a non-binding resolution. You are not legally bound to follow it, but ignoring it seems like at least a affront.

And word scores primary impact is on leader relations.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
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BlueTemplar
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:07 pm

RE: Refusing demands effect on word score

Post by BlueTemplar »

Unlike what the tooltip says, refusing faction Demands does NOT lower your Word score.
It DOES have an effect on Faction Happiness... which seems to give big random Relation penalties to the Leaders of that Faction ?
I wonder whether the type of your Political Body *also* has an impact on the frequency of Demands from Majority Factions, or if just has an effect on the maximum number of Demands and the frequency of Demands by Minority Factions ?
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