Engine Optimization and other GCV linear techs

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Pratapon51
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:44 pm

Engine Optimization and other GCV linear techs

Post by Pratapon51 »

It does bother me a little that Aircraft have so many linear techs while our bread-and-butter Ground Vehicles lack some of their broad options. Granted, they need the boons more, but hey. [:D]

Some ideas to this end :

Tracked Vehicle Optimization: Adds (TL/5) to the Engine Design Roll of any tracked vehicle.

Wheeled Vehicle Optimization: Adds (TL/5) to the Engine Design Roll of any wheeled vehicle.

Liquid Armor Composition: Lowers weight of Liquid Armor.


Edit : Made some changes to original proposal.
zgrssd
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Conv. Engine Optimization and Alloy Framing Linear Techs

Post by zgrssd »

The effective Engine power is used by the Movement Cost Modifier, and it is based on Rated Engine Power * Engine Design.
However it turns out that the engine size overall has a negligible impact on fuel consumption - unless it is a double or tripple engine. So currently there would be a doubtfull value of the first.

The 2nd also has irrelevant impact, as the Chassis weight is only Size * 10.
Wich is absolutely miniscule compared to Armor, gun and engine weight.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
GuardsmanGary
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:24 pm

RE: Conv. Engine Optimization and Alloy Framing Linear Techs

Post by GuardsmanGary »

Increasing effective engine power or reducing total weight (assuming the intent of the tech is provide significant weight savings and not, as zgrssd said, a pittance) has the same effect, except one of these options as presented has a downside while the other doesn't. Now I know the conventional small arms optimization tech says it increases ammo consumption in the tooltip but it it actually doesn't, so adding a negative downside to a linear tech would be out of place compared to the others.

Due to the way fuel consumption is calculated reducing the weight of the model by half would have pretty significant knock on effect on fuel use, so if there was a tech to reduce vehicle weight it would play double duty on reducing fuel consumption and thus competing with fuel efficiency for research priority. A 1200 weight heavy tank using a triple heavy diesel engine, without any fuel efficiency tech, consumes 34.4 oil per hex. If there was a tech to reduce total weight by half this tank would weigh only 600, allowing the design to use a double heavy diesel engine and thus reducing the fuel cost to 12.3 oil per hex. Comparatively 100% progress in fuel efficiency would reduce the original heavy tank to 11.4 fuel per hex. If both techs were applied it would cost this heavy tank 4.1 fuel per hex.

Then you also have to consider the direct relationship between weight and move modifier; a tech that reduced weight would be competing with your proposed engine power tech for improving the move modifier.

A way to increase effective engine power other than the engine design roll isn't a bad idea on its face, but having a tech that reduces ground vehicle weight steps on too many toes.
Pratapon51
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:44 pm

RE: Conv. Engine Optimization and Alloy Framing Linear Techs

Post by Pratapon51 »

I suppose I didn't take that into account, but I guess one reason why I put in both is that I find it's easy to run out of viable options for my Applied Science guys to research. [:D] I'll rethink the suggestion a little bit, maybe make it more in-line with how the Aircraft linears work.
zgrssd
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

RE: Conv. Engine Optimization and Alloy Framing Linear Techs

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: Pratapon51

I suppose I didn't take that into account, but I guess one reason why I put in both is that I find it's easy to run out of viable options for my Applied Science guys to research. [:D] I'll rethink the suggestion a little bit, maybe make it more in-line with how the Aircraft linears work.
Aircraft work markedly differently. But there are currently some bugs in the formula that seem to hide how it should work. Still this is how (I think) they shoudl work:
- fuel consumption at maximum range should be fixed, based on the fuel tank
- reducing fuel consumption should also inrease max range (given that the same fuel lasts longer), wich is propably the most important stat for aircraft

So they can get away with - or even need - weight reduction.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
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