how far to rush initially?

A military-oriented and sci-fi wargame, set on procedural planets with customizable factions and endless choices.

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misterprimus
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how far to rush initially?

Post by misterprimus »

If playing on one of the larger planets, like a Seth class, does it make sense to rush out to claim lots of independent territories and risk being cut off from supply, or should one be more conservative and just capture a few territories to build up around the main starting city?

Also, I vaguely remember one game where I had the surrounding independent territory explored (conquered), but then in a single turn it became the property of an opposing group. Right clicking to move into the territory asked me if I wanted to declare war, so it was not an act of war by them. Not sure how that could have happened without them declaring war on me?
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BlueTemplar
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by BlueTemplar »

Hmm, making extra SHQs for this might make sense ?

Do you really mean that a zone of yours flipped to another major ?
Maerchen
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by Maerchen »

As far as I know this happens when you conquer the name-giving last hex perk of the former territory. The next turn the remaining hexes are added to a random neighbor minor territory.

If you want to keep eyes on the territories with spies in them, do not take the name-giving hex perk.
The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.
Maerchen
Posts: 348
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Location: Germany

RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by Maerchen »

Regarding borders: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2314171481 Chapter Borderline syndrome.
The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.
zgrssd
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by zgrssd »

If playing on one of the larger planets, like a Seth class, does it make sense to rush out to claim lots of independent territories and risk being cut off from supply, or should one be more conservative and just capture a few territories to build up around the main starting city?
I would be very conservative until you know who is around you. There are some starts were you get rushed by slaver armies on Turn 2.

I am having a game right now where I nomads in the north. And every other direction are either Non-Alligned forces or the natives. The natives are damn agressive.
Also, I vaguely remember one game where I had the surrounding independent territory explored (conquered), but then in a single turn it became the property of an opposing group. Right clicking to move into the territory asked me if I wanted to declare war, so it was not an act of war by them. Not sure how that could have happened without them declaring war on me?
Are you certain you had them conquered and not just explored via Spies?
If it is a Minor with a City, it is possible a existing Protection deal or a successfull Annexation/Integration Card caused them to change to the majors side.
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Daza99
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by Daza99 »

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Are you certain you had them conquered and not just explored via Spies?
If it is a Minor with a City, it is possible a existing Protection deal or a successfull Annexation/Integration Card caused them to change to the majors side.

I never knew this was a possibility. I know the Ai can play Stratagem cards, but i thought it had more of a limited range due to the complexity of this game. I suppose this could mean too, a Major faction could try to send money to support a faction within your own government as we can? but i wonder if only they have spies operating in order to know which one to support.

Also i wonder if it is possible to find out how many spies a major or minor nation has in others? which might give the player an idea which nation might flip to that major and if anything can be done about that. I am guessing this is not possible. But could be interesting area to increase gameplay, such as having expert spies who could infiltrate an enemy spy network to blow their operation or learn which faction is getting help secretly and try to counter that with trying to support the other faction as to interfere with their efforts.


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BlueTemplar
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by BlueTemplar »

I know of an indirect way to know if you're being spied upon : it seems like your secretary is the one responsible for defending against enemy spies (if you have no director of secret services ?), so if you see him growing more experienced in Covert Ops Skill, that's what is happening ?
misterprimus
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by misterprimus »

Just trying to get an idea of what I need to win. I guess it's: army comes from manpower which uses food which requires water which requires energy which requires solar panels?

Are my only true long-term threats the major powers? I assume minor powers and below are merely nuisances since they only ever have infantry and will be outclassed given any tech breakthroughs?

I've been playing on moons and other harsh environments to slow things down and give me time to think, so it seems as though small regimes are often more powerful initially since they don't seem to follow the same rules as the human player and the major regimes?
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BlueTemplar
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by BlueTemplar »

You'll need a lot of metal early on, and also quite a bit of IP, especially for logistic expansion.

And some minors can show up with some "hard" (non-infantry) subunits...

Otherwise, for moons, you got the gist of it !
zgrssd
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RE: how far to rush initially?

Post by zgrssd »

Water supply is usually not excessively hard. 1 Water mine should produce so much, you can often reduce the production to 25%, run your Farms and still sell excess.
Frozen plains actually act as unlimited place for mining.
In places where you can collect Rainfall or have sufrace waters (Rivers, Lakes, Seas) that can actually fully cover your consumption. We are talking about free water in the thousands. On the right planet water is such a non-issue, it becomnes worthless to sell.

So the 3 cases for Water are:
- Such a non-issue, it stops having any value for selling
- Need a mine, but unlimited reserves under said mine
- need a mine and limited reserves per mine. Need later techs or some expansion to maintain supply longterm

Food
- Dome Farms are the most reliable food source. You can put them anywhere. You can even put them into the fields of Open Air Farms. Main downside is that they cost some energy.
- Open Air Farms are very inefficient with water - but the advantage is that they need no upkeep besides workers and water. If you can use them, there is a 99% chance you got water to spare so you can run them no questions asked. Temperature variance can still be an issue however.
- Hydroponics are hella expensive to build and maintain - except for water upkeep, there they are peerless. You can also put them into a city that already has a farming asset so a trivial upgrade

Manpower
The main issue with Manpower is geetting enough of it out of your city, without runing their growth. And keeping losses below the Casualty Tresholds. Long term you want to keep recruitment < growth. But early on you get so much growth from migrating free folk, the 500 start is not a issue.

The Real issues early games are:
- Metal
- IP to convert those metals into something usefull
- Machines to build most buildings
Even water and food are only a temnporary drain of those 3, if that much.
Are my only true long-term threats the major powers? I assume minor powers and below are merely nuisances since they only ever have infantry and will be outclassed given any tech breakthroughs?
Mostly, but not entirely.
Minor Militias do improove in quality over time. And especially Natives can have some pretty crazy guns of their own design. Nothing Infantry with Automatic Rifles or Gas Powered Small arms and Combat armor or light tanks can not deal with - but there is some decent stuff.

Minors with a city are valuable to attack - because they have a lot of the population, but the others should be avoided unless you need to get through their territory.
DW2 Poll:
"Should the Civil and non-Combat Ships loose all or most of their weapon slots?"
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=382690
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