Give Back Hex

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stryc
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:20 am

Give Back Hex

Post by stryc »

Often when I'm helping an allied regime defend itself I end up owning a big chunk of their assets, and they mine for flipside situations. I would like the ability to give back / reclaim hexes to/from other regimes to remedy this effect.
TheSquid
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by TheSquid »

In addition to this, IMO it would be better still to have the ability to enter an ally's territory (without taking it over), provided we've obtained persmission (e.g. due to the level of the alliance and/or playing some kind of strategem card)?

I say "in addition to" and not "instead of" because there could still be times where the enemy you're fighting has already taken over your ally's land, and you're "liberating" it - so therefore you should be able to return it to them.

I can see this becoming finicky/problematic though, since the game would need to make a determination who the "rightful owner" is - or just simply allow us to exchange hexes with an ally, or possibly as part of a peace treaty/ceasefire/alliance? After all, trading land and redrawing boundaries were often topics for diplomatic discussion...
zgrssd
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by zgrssd »

Entering and attacking from each others terrain is a pain. Just look at any Paradox game. And the inventiable bugs that will happen here.

As for returning terrain: that is not exactly easy either. What if you want to keep the terrain, because "in the chaos of the war" you managed to snag a city or some resources your ally used to have?
We would need a whole concept of claims to specific hexes to adjudicate such conflicts. Wich is a pain, as - again - any Paradox game can show you.

I like those systems when the work. But they are a giant amount of work, fail half the time and do not add as much to the game as you think.

Maybe some low-level way to exchange hexes should be added?
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stryc
Posts: 176
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by stryc »

Very simple player-only function to give a hex 'back' to an ally that was taken in a battle against a common foe. Quite often I would find it better to let my ally retain its functional estate rather than me having to either link up new acquired long distance assets or, as is more common, just shut them down.

This swings the other way too: claiming back hexes from an ally that's helped you fend off a common foe. This one is where the complexity lies because the AI would need to 'remember' what was yours to begin with - and hexes can change hands a lot over time which adds complexity.

As things stand now, even if allies fight off a foe, they are still shafted with the often resultant effective 'loss' of assets, simply because there's no way to exchange hexes peacefully.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by BlueTemplar »

In addition to this, IMO it would be better still to have the ability to enter an ally's territory (without taking it over), provided we've obtained persmission (e.g. due to the level of the alliance and/or playing some kind of strategem card)?
Wait, isn't this automatic when reaching Military Pact lvl 2 : "Friendship" ?

----

AI's willingness to (auto) give (back) tiles could depend on things like distance from closest AI city relative to distance from your closest city, and your relation.
zgrssd
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar
In addition to this, IMO it would be better still to have the ability to enter an ally's territory (without taking it over), provided we've obtained persmission (e.g. due to the level of the alliance and/or playing some kind of strategem card)?
Wait, isn't this automatic when reaching Military Pact lvl 2 : "Friendship" ?
Not that I know off.

That kind of system is a waking nightmare. It would need a complete rework of how Hex access and ownership work, to be viable. Nevermind the issues of actually getting supplies to the soldiers when you got no control or ability to upgrade the Logistics Systems.
Hearts of Iron 4 is still trying to get that part right.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by BlueTemplar »

Right, though it only becomes an issue over long distances, as over short distances the units are fine with their own Operational Logistics, which I assume should be able to work over allied hexes.
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Vic
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RE: Give Back Hex

Post by Vic »

I have implemented this kind of features for ATG, but it is a MAJOR MAJOR undertaking and I don't see me addressing this any time soon.

Especially the logistics part (where you'd need logistical points inside enemy terrain) will be very hard to redesign as well as all the matrix possibilities of alliances and unit mixes in hexes.

sorry there. no go for now.
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