is there any point in mechanized artillery?

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mahaniok
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is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by mahaniok »

So I can have normal artillery with trucks. Why would I ever build a much more expensive mechanized artillery, with much smaller gun and much more fuel consumption?
zgrssd
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by zgrssd »

Because you can put on some decent armor. Even just 100mm would be a relevant value for the callibre calcualtion - on par with Advanced Battledress.

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AgentFransis
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by AgentFransis »

Yes it makes them more resilient to attacks but unless things are going very wrong your artillery is not getting attacked at all, especially if you only use it for ranged attacks. In the early game they're too expensive and by the mid game they're pretty much obsolete and you should switch to rocket or missile.
Pratapon51
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Pratapon51 »

Hard target vs. soft, tracked vs wheeled (or 'foot') movement type, self-propelled and not vulnerable to truck destruction. [:D]
yutowap33
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by yutowap33 »

That depends on what you need. I use large independent arti formations in support role, upgrading to mechanized arti will give me extra armor I don't need and it's fuel requirements put a dent in my effort to supply the front line.
Pratapon51
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Pratapon51 »

Depends on context and doctrine, of course. That said, gun artillery IMO still has a use most of the game because of staying power and multi-attack ability, making it a lot harder for enemy units to break through in a combined engagement. It'd matter more if the AI fielded artillery support more consistently for backline-on-backline attack.
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Clux
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Clux »

Right now its kinda useless, its very heavy, has less defense attack than regular artillery, its pretty expensive, with 25mm polymer armor you're fine but so its artillery with Heavy Combat Armor... It would be nice if its weight were less, could be used in OOBs formations instead of regular motorized artillery, had a bonus in counter battery fire (due being able to quickly change position) and had higher attack value than the regular artillery at the same caliber (since it can be fielded faster and normally has auto-loading systems)
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jimwinsor
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by jimwinsor »

They would be considered "mechanized" for posture stratagems like Blitzkrieg? If so you'd want to put them in your tank brigades to maximize the posture bonuses.
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zgrssd
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

They would be considered "mechanized" for posture stratagems like Blitzkrieg? If so you'd want to put them in your tank brigades to maximize the posture bonuses.
This was in the patchnots of the last beta:
"-MissileLauncher and RocketLauncher and other mechanized Launchers now use the Gun Tactics Skill (instead of Tank Tactics)"
So, they used to. But propably no longer?
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aguvenli
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by aguvenli »

Only one way to find out. A unit's type is listed in the combat odds preview / unit selection screen.
Uemon
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Uemon »

There is only one point to mechanized artillery and im surprised nobody pointed it out before:

Mechanized artillery can keep up with tanks!

Though obviously for what it can potentially do, its ridiculously (or even prohibitively) expensive and makes no sense whatsoever. Kinda similar to regular artillery really. All youre gonna do is drain your supply points for minimal combat difference.
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newageofpower
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by newageofpower »

ORIGINAL: Uemon

There is only one point to mechanized artillery and im surprised nobody pointed it out before:

Mechanized artillery can keep up with tanks!

Though obviously for what it can potentially do, its ridiculously (or even prohibitively) expensive and makes no sense whatsoever. Kinda similar to regular artillery really. All youre gonna do is drain your supply points for minimal combat difference.
Truck or APC drawn artillery are faster than tanks, *much* faster per cost spent.
GuardsmanGary
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by GuardsmanGary »

If the AI is fielding a lot of artillery and you still want to conduct artillery bombardments in relative safety the extra protection of mechanized artillery performs quite well against counter-battery fire. Not that I've ever run into an AI fielding excessive amounts of artillery...
zgrssd
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: GuardsmanGary

If the AI is fielding a lot of artillery and you still want to conduct artillery bombardments in relative safety the extra protection of mechanized artillery performs quite well against counter-battery fire. Not that I've ever run into an AI fielding excessive amounts of artillery...
The same should be true if the enemy uses a lot of airforces.
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Uemon
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Uemon »

ORIGINAL: newageofpower

ORIGINAL: Uemon

There is only one point to mechanized artillery and im surprised nobody pointed it out before:

Mechanized artillery can keep up with tanks!

Though obviously for what it can potentially do, its ridiculously (or even prohibitively) expensive and makes no sense whatsoever. Kinda similar to regular artillery really. All youre gonna do is drain your supply points for minimal combat difference.
Truck or APC drawn artillery are faster than tanks, *much* faster per cost spent.

Are they? I thought mech artillery with biggest engine was faster? Nevermind then.
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newageofpower
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by newageofpower »

Truck arty doesn't care about the weight of the arty. Light Diesel Engine Truck with >95 Engine Roll gets max (player) ground movespeed, +20%. This works even when towing gigantic 300mm Artillery; no malus to speed.

Mech arty has medium hull chassis, which gives innate -10% movespeed. Then you have the weight of the gun and the armor. So you'll be lucky to hit 0% movespeed modifier with a large gun and decent armor, even with Triple Diesel engine. With enough field testing and polymer armor you might get to +5 or 10% speed.

Tanks are even slower, except for Light Tanks with lots of field testing and high engine rolls. It's pretty impractical to get Medium/Heavy tanks past +10% movespeed. Most players are happy with a "mere" -20% speed penalty on medium and heavy tanks, especially for earlier marks.

Considering the gigantic cost differential between multiple heavy diesels and a light diesel, trucks arty makes mech arty worthless in Shadow Empire.
Soar_Slitherine
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Soar_Slitherine »

Tracked vehicles have a much lower base movement cost than wheeled vehicles offroad, though - they're faster by one-third on plains, for example. I don't think independent artillery can be equipped with APCs for tracked movement, either - at least I couldn't find any option to raise a mechanized artillery formation the last time I invested in APCs and looked for it.
AgentFransis
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by AgentFransis »

That's true but motorized artillery is fast enough for any practical need. It mostly needs to keep up with the infantry anyway since tanks hardly need the arty support.
Uemon
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by Uemon »

Sadly i think Vic needs to rework artillery and rocket/missile launchers, they are simply impractical for how much they cost. Artillery in particular, if you use ranged attack option, its prohibitively expensive to operate. Usually 2 motorized artillery brigades max out my early logistics completely with just the ammo heh.
AgentFransis
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RE: is there any point in mechanized artillery?

Post by AgentFransis »

Two full artillery brigades is a massive amount for the early game. Usually two, at most four battalions is more than enough for me in an early war. You also want battalions so you can attach them to the infantry brigades to get the command bonus.
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