Malta

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Flaviusx
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Malta

Post by Flaviusx »

Is it possible to land in multiple locations against Malta and launch a multihex attack on it from more than 1 beachhead?

I am currently experiencing a minor disaster trying to take it in my mirror match. Turns out that a 20 point corps with 6 AA on Malta is not so easy.

I probably just threw away an entire German infantry corps doing this, not to mention the oil, the air losses, and the amphibious points. And I even put arty on this corps to help take the place. What a fiasco. Might just have to write this off.

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sveint
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RE: Malta

Post by sveint »

I don't see the point of taking Malta in WarPlan, it's way too hard.
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Flaviusx
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RE: Malta

Post by Flaviusx »

I'm used it to it being garrisoned by a 10 pt unit and that is easy enough to take. The larger sized garrison was a very unpleasant surprise.

And leaving Malta alone causes problems for Italy down the line. A tac or even strat bomber there can make it a real pain in the neck to reinforce Africa if is set to naval interdiction. So I prefer to take it out. I just hate leaving any airbases in the Med for the allies like this. Same with Crete. I want to push the Allies to Egypt and Gibraltar while dominating the Central med for interior lines.



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sveint
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RE: Malta

Post by sveint »

I agree, but it's too hard to take.
malkarma
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RE: Malta

Post by malkarma »

It´s not possible to make multihex attacks on Malta.
The only way is the hard way. Continuous Air pounding an Air Resupply of the invading army to get the chance to land 5 attacks in a row.
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RE: Malta

Post by kennonlightfoot »

Historically, Malta was difficult to take which is why the Axis bypassed it. The reasons it was don't translate well to the operational level of WarPlan. You can't designate a Island to be continuously patrolled by air and sea. In WarPlan it is an all or nothing patrolling.
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AlvaroSousa
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

#1 put Italian fleet on landing site
#2 pound it with air
#3 land unit on landing site
#4 pound it some more
#5 attack
#6 attack
#7 wait till next turn
#8 attack again

Meanwhile if the Royal Navy comes
#1 pound them with air
#2 pound them with air again
#3 pound them with air once again
#4 pound them with air once more

Malta problem solves. And yes it does interfere with Axis supply just as historical estimates. All they need is a bomber there
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Flaviusx
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RE: Malta

Post by Flaviusx »

Alvaro, what happens if you do this is the landing unit just gets ground to a nub and can't take any replacements. (Nor can it evacuate.) And your air gets shot to pieces by the 6 AA. After 3 turns the corps I threw into this is down to 18 points.

Meanwhile, the Italians are going through 25 oil a turn.

If you were willing to sacrifice several corps in a row you might eventually take it. It is just not worth it.
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AlvaroSousa
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

You resupply the unit on the beach by sea or air. Eventually that unit dies in Malta.

Remember the UK has to build a lot of stuff in 1939/1940. That is when the Axis can make good choices in which the UK can't cover everything.

If the Axis decide on a Sub/Med campaign they can overwhelm the UK in 1940. Then do a 1942 Barbarossa.

The new rule in the beta is that planes don't lose manpower in combat, only planes which is recovered at 40% of it's PP value. While land is recovered at 60%.

So it's 250 for a ground attack air unit. 6 AA whacks 3 air points not including their defense. So say 2.5 strength per air unit. If you hit it with 4 air units thats 10 planes a turn at 40% = 100 production. You just do this for 2 turns = 200.

AA cost = 90

We cancel out the land unit difference.

So it's 2:1 + ratio in production to take out Malta mathematically. You add in the land unit loss then it is less than 2:1 for the Axis.

Now no supply worries
An extra airbase in 1943 which is key.
Less spotting power for the Allies in 1943.

Seems kind of fair and this is assuming the UK stacks 6 AA there on the trade offs.

And yes of course it costs oil. But this is all part of operational planning.
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RE: Malta

Post by MagicMissile »

Dont forget that if the Allied player is lucky he might have time to withdraw the AA and even sail away with whats left of the garrison. So I think there is a good risk/reward for putting the AA on Malta.

/MM
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Flaviusx
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RE: Malta

Post by Flaviusx »

After 4 turns of this I've got the Malta garrison down to half size. Don't even ask me about my air losses.

I'm probably going to need to land a second corps to finish this off. I'll have to suicide the first one to make room for it. Uggh.

If I had any sense I'd have already cut my losses and abandoned this op, but in for a penny, in for a pound. Maybe I can trash the AA if I get lucky and MM doesn't pull those out in time.
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AlvaroSousa
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Are you using a German Corps?
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Flaviusx
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RE: Malta

Post by Flaviusx »

Yes I am, and it has an arty attachment even. But I cannot do better than 1-1 odds. So it is a grind. If the corps was fresh, I'd probably be able to take Malta, but is at half strength and poor effectiveness even with constant resupply. And I cannot retreat it. I can only suicide it at this point to make room for a replacement.
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RE: Malta

Post by Harrybanana »

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

And leaving Malta alone causes problems for Italy down the line. A tac or even strat bomber there can make it a real pain in the neck to reinforce Africa if is set to naval interdiction.

It doesn't have to be set to naval interdiction, it just has to be set to Full Support. I think this is a problem myself. I have an air unit set to Full Support that I only want to intercept enemy fleet movements. Knowing this my opponent makes a couple land attacks drawing my bomber in and using up all its interception attempts. He then makes an unescorted invasion in the exact location I was trying to protect. Or the opposite happens. I want my air unit to provide defensive ground support so my opponent sends in a fleet to draw my bombers fire and then does a ground attack. I would love it if an air unit set to Full Support would only perform the interception I have it set to (ie naval attack or ground attack). Sorry to hijack your thread.

My opinion on Malta is that it probably would have been tough to take if the UK had 2 full divisions there with lots of AA. If you allow multiple invasion beaches for Malta then why not the same for Gibraltar?
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AlvaroSousa
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Well I got creative in the code which should make this interesting.

I pulled this adaption off Pacific.

Any single island supply source can now be blockaded by 1 naval group next to the location. Blockades prevent port supply.

So how do you stop it? having a friendly naval group there.

So in the case of Malta or Gibraltar (only 2 locations affected) this is now a fight for sea control.

In the Pacific it will be many, many, MANY little islands.
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RE: Malta

Post by malkarma »

Gibraltar is different from MAlta because it has access to both the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. Maybe to cut supplies there you should have to put fleets in both sides of the strait (just a thought, obviously).
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

It works for Gib. The only thing holding the Axis from crossing it was the UK navy.

Axis fleet East side, Allied fleet West side = supply
Axis fleet online East side = not supplied
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RE: Malta

Post by malkarma »

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

It works for Gib. The only thing holding the Axis from crossing it was the UK navy.

And the gun batteries inside the rock... but I see what you are trying to achieve here.
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RE: Malta

Post by battlevonwar »

Malta is expensive to take for what you get...
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RE: Malta

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Well now you can starve it out of supply.
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